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Thread: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

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    Default Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    Hello!

    So this is my first forum post, and I'm looking for some help regarding how I've set up my pacman frog terrarium. I have a few concerns that I believe I'm not meeting, I could be wrong and everything maybe be ok but I'm just making sure.

    I own a green pacman frog, named Rhubarb. He's about 1-1.5 inches long, I bought him two days ago at a local petsmart. He was in the store for a good 1-2 months before I got him. The lady mentioned he is perfectly healthy and he's been eating everyday, about 4-8 crickets a day. When I bought him, she mentioned he had already eaten 4 crickets that day so I didn't expect him to eat much when introducing him to his new tank. I own a 10 gallon glass aquarium, with the ZooMed coconut substrate, along with a few patches of ZooMed sphagnum moss around the tank to help to aid in holding humidity. I also have a hollow log and a few fake plants suction-cupped to the wall. He's also got a shallow water dish that I've managed to catch him sitting in a few times since I got him.

    Here are my concerns: He doesn't appear to eat much, I offered him about 7 medium-large crickets and he seems to have stuck his nose up at them. I'm not sure if there's still 7 in there, I can't see them all, but I just can't tell if he's eating. He burrows in the back left corner and has remained there since I bought him. The soil he buried himself in appeared too dry; the coconut substrate without water is almost a dust. So I removed him for a minute and damped the coconut substrate to make it more damp for him. I mixed in about 4-5 cups of water in with about a half-bag worth of soil. I'd say close to a quart of soil is in that tank. The lady at the store said the pacman frog enjoys a very damp, almost muddy soil. I noticed in removing the hollow log today that some fuzzy mold, I think it's mildew, was growing under the part of the log that came into contact with the damp soil. Is my substrate too wet? If I squeeze it, very little to no water drips off. And yet mildew is growing under the part of the log that sits flat on the dirt. And that also brings up the concern if my tank is too cold. If mildews growing, that means it's not too warm(tropical) in the tank to ward it off. I have a space heater in the room, and the room doesn't go below 70 degrees. There's a 60w neodymium daylight bulb above the tank made by Exo Terra. I remove that at night and put in a 60w red nightlight reptile bulb made by ZooMed. There's no other heating method other than the room being at 70 degrees and the use of these two bulbs. I own a 60w blue daylight reptile bulb made by ZooMed but I feel like that's too bright for him. Is the use of the neodymium bulb at day and the red bulb at night a good combo? Is that supplying enough heat for him? And is my soil too wet if mildew is growing? I'm just confused cuz he doesn't appear to eat and he just hides in the same place all day.

    I know pacman frogs are lazy and inactive most of the time, but since I got him, I haven't seen him eat nor appear to be active at all. He just burrows and hides all day. So in conclusion here: Is my tank too cold or is it adequate with the heat bulbs I have? Do you recommend better heating methods? Is the soil too damp if mildew is growing in dark places? Exactly how wet should the soil be? Does he burrow if he is too hot? Does he only eat at night? And why does my pacman frog never seem to accept a meal?

    Thx for reading and I hope I get some clarification on my concerns so I can keep my Rhubarb happy!

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    100+ Post Member Frogman1031's Avatar
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    Default Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    Hello and welcome to the frog forum !

    At 1-1.5 inches long, 10 gallons can be a little daunting. When pacmans are adults they need a ten gallon but juveniles can become stressed out in a huge tank. While your frog is still adjusting, I would look into a smaller critter keeper.

    Moss is an impaction risk especially for pacmans. They can ingest it and it could block their digestive tract. Recommend removing asap.

    Are you dechlroinating the water you are using? If not, seachem prime is used by many members.

    New frogs that are still adjusting to their environment often do not eat for a few days.

    The substrate should be damp, but not soaking wet.

    What color is the mold?

    Daytime temperatures for pacman frogs should be between 80-83 degrees with a drop to 75-77 at night. The humidity should be 70-80%

    Pacman frogs by nature are nocturnal and not very active frogs. At night, there should be no light (even bulbs that claim they cant be seen can be seen) unless it is absolutely necessary to maintain heat. Other ways to maintain heat include heat mats attached to the side or a ceramic heat emitter (keep in mind that chm's can get too hot and dry the air). Your frog is also adjusting which is why I recommend getting a smaller enclosure sooner rather than later. The frog can go a few days without eating but more than that and there may be a problem.

    Finding a frog vet in case there should ever be a need for one is a good idea and getting a fecal exam done is also a good idea.

    I will post a care sheet on here to help.

    http://www.frogforum.net/content/pac...-breeding-170/

    Litoria
    caerulea 1.1.0 (White's Tree Frog)
    Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis ​0.1.0 (Anerythristic Honduran Milk Snake) Tliltocatl albopilosus 0.0.2 (Curly Hair Tarantula)
    Aphonopelma hentzi 0.0.1 (Texas Brown Tarantula)
    Avicularia avicularia 0.0.2 (Pinktoe Tarantula)
    Brachypelma smithi ex. annitha 0.0.1 (Mexican Giant Red Knee Tarantula) Monocentropus balfouri 0.0.2 (Socotra Island Blue Baboon Tarantula)
    Harpactira pulchripes
    0.0.1 (Golden Blue Leg Baboon Tarantula)

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    Hi and welcome to the forum. I'll correct Elli a bit, humidity should be 70-80, I like to have it at 75 ti have some room for the error.

    if he was in store for a good 1-2 months.... And is 1-1,5" - would you pls post a pic ( photobucket or similar)
    For that size of the pacman big crickets might be too big. The size shoud be no bigger then the distance between the eyes.

    You gotta do some shopping:
    proper gauges to measure humidity and temps. Digitals are the best, regular home ones from Walmart, Home Depot, etc are fine. You have to know exact readings!
    heat lamp - infrared (50w) or ceramic heat emitter, both are fine to have all day and night.
    Fogger and hydroterm ( be about 100$ for both), not must haves but a huge headache saver for you. If you plug a fogger and a heat source into hydroterm you will never worry about humidity or temps.

    NEVER let dry the substrate to the point it's dust! It's very very dangerous in so many levels, especially for babies. Yhe substrate has to be wets but never mud like. When you soak clock fiber, you squize the water, that's aboyput how it should be at all the times.

    im probably forgetting smth.... Was a very long day for me
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    I'll remove moss, and the mold was a fuzzy white color. It looked like cotton almost. And as for the crickets, the pet store lady told me they fed him large crickets and he accepted them no problem. There was even one large cricket left in his tank after she said she fed him 5 and he ate 4.

    And the the water is spring water from a plastic gallon. It's distilled. Non chlorinated and contains no heavy metals.

    You say the ceramic heat emitter dries the air a lot, yet the moss is what keeps the humidity in. How can I keep in humidity if I must remove the moss?

    Is a 60w red nightlight bulb the same thing as a 60w infrared bulb?

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    White mold should clear up on it's own and not be a problem for your frog.
    Distilled water is not good. It denies your frog of vital minerals in water.
    misting the tank more often is a reliable way to keep humidity up

    Litoria
    caerulea 1.1.0 (White's Tree Frog)
    Lampropeltis triangulum hondurensis ​0.1.0 (Anerythristic Honduran Milk Snake) Tliltocatl albopilosus 0.0.2 (Curly Hair Tarantula)
    Aphonopelma hentzi 0.0.1 (Texas Brown Tarantula)
    Avicularia avicularia 0.0.2 (Pinktoe Tarantula)
    Brachypelma smithi ex. annitha 0.0.1 (Mexican Giant Red Knee Tarantula) Monocentropus balfouri 0.0.2 (Socotra Island Blue Baboon Tarantula)
    Harpactira pulchripes
    0.0.1 (Golden Blue Leg Baboon Tarantula)

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    Don't get me started on " pet stores ladies" lol

    if the Pacman is 1-1.5" big crickets are bigger the the distance between his eyes.... Depending of course on your definition of big

    spring water and distilled water are 2 completely different things, please clarify.

    Humidity - see my post above. It also helps to cover the screen top with foil, cut the hole a bit bigger then diameter of a lamp to put it on. I usually tape the foil to the screen from outside of the tank.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveyJones View Post
    Is a 60w red nightlight bulb the same thing as a 60w infrared bulb?
    There are no 60w infrared lamps, or at least I haven't seen any. 50w infrared will produce more heat then nightlight one.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    I have Natures Pride Natural Spring Water. That's what it says on plastic gallon. The last thing I used was distilled, so good thing I bought spring water lol! I'll post a picture showing crickets relation to distance of eyes on frog to get a better conclusion as to what I should feed him. I'll also buy a humidity gauge and a thermometer.

    Is just one 50w infrared bulb sufficient to heat tank and keep it at 77-84 degrees? Or do I need multiple bulbs or heaters?

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    Okay because I work at pet store I will put this kindly to the workers that most don't have the best knowledge of some of the slow to sell exotics. I do agree with others are saying as well of a simple set up. I recommend to my customers the Eco earth and tell people no reptile bulbs for a frog they can burn the eyes or skin. I always recommend the aqueon half blue half white lights for UVB and a regular 25w incandescent for heat. If using distilled use it only in a humidifier and a soaking bowl with fresh treated water changed daily. You can add live plants like white ribbon to help process poop. Use a humidity and temperature gauge combo preferably digital but analog works. I got mine from my store a year ago and we fed him daily but now he eats maybe every 6 to 12 days as he eats up to 6 night crawlers a sitting or 7 large crickets. 75 to 85 should be the temperature ranges 75 at night and up to 85 during the day but make sure the bedding is deep enough if he feels too hot about 2.5 to 3 inches deep of bedding works great. As for humidity 75% to 80% is a great range to aim for

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by cobra1264 View Post
    Okay because I work at pet store I will put this kindly to the workers that most don't have the best knowledge of some of the slow to sell exotics. I do agree with others are saying as well of a simple set up. I recommend to my customers the Eco earth and tell people no reptile bulbs for a frog they can burn the eyes or skin. I always recommend the aqueon half blue half white lights for UVB and a regular 25w incandescent for heat. If using distilled use it only in a humidifier and a soaking bowl with fresh treated water changed daily. You can add live plants like white ribbon to help process poop. Use a humidity and temperature gauge combo preferably digital but analog works. I got mine from my store a year ago and we fed him daily but now he eats maybe every 6 to 12 days as he eats up to 6 night crawlers a sitting or 7 large crickets. 75 to 85 should be the temperature ranges 75 at night and up to 85 during the day but make sure the bedding is deep enough if he feels too hot about 2.5 to 3 inches deep of bedding works great. As for humidity 75% to 80% is a great range to aim for
    That is a perfect example of what I was talking earlier.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveyJones View Post
    I have Natures Pride Natural Spring Water. That's what it says on plastic gallon. The last thing I used was distilled, so good thing I bought spring water lol! I'll post a picture showing crickets relation to distance of eyes on frog to get a better conclusion as to what I should feed him. I'll also buy a humidity gauge and a thermometer.

    Is just one 50w infrared bulb sufficient to heat tank and keep it at 77-84 degrees? Or do I need multiple bulbs or heaters?
    your spring water is a spring water then distilled is different, it's stripped of everything. The water is ok.

    Yes 50w is usually enough to heat up a tank, but you will need a dimmer to fine tune it. Or controller.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    Ok so now realizing that my blue daylight bulbs only produce UVA and no UVB I'm about to go to pet supplies plus and buy some halogen bulbs for the UVB. Along with a temperate and humidity gauge. Do you guys think a solid blue 60w Zoomed daytime bulb will be too bright for him? Or should I go with a lower watt halogen bulb? So he gets visible light that's not too burning and gets UVB too?

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    lol I guess i wasn't clear earlier when I was talking about the examples

    you do not need UVB for pacman frog, and if you have albino having UVB is absolutely out of question. Any bright light really.
    no need for any day light at all, ambient room light, so a frog can distinguish day from night is enough. Rhubarb is not albino, so if you want you can use 13w regular energy saving lamp or similar.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    DaveyJones when Lija says you don't need to buy all this lighting she is a hundred percent right. They live on the forest floor and when the sun comes out they go under the dirt or find a nice big leaf to sit under. Mine is downstairs in the basement and the only light he gets is the little that comes through the little basement window that is covered by the window well outside and the actual basement light. And my basement is only 60 watt bulbs in the ceiling. And my point being is when that little bit of light comes on in the morning he takes off from sitting in the open and he buries himself under this plant I have with these really big leaves. And there is 2 big plants in my tank and this is the one he chooses because it blocks out almost all the light, its nice and dark under this plant. I personally think a lot of people just want the lights so they can see inside there tank better and it looks nicer sometimes all lit up then being dark gloomy during the day. So don't go out and buy all these lights and get yourself all stressed that he isn't getting enough light, that's the way he likes it.
    Last edited by monster; March 23rd, 2015 at 10:20 AM. Reason: spelling

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    Default Re: Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    Ok I didn't buy any lights other than a UVB bulb for my anole, but what I did buy was a humidity/temperature meter, a two in one gauge! Right now the temp is 71 degrees with a humidity of 75%. The humidity is great! But the temp could be higher, that's a bit cold for the little guy. Everyone's saying a rage of 75-85 degrees, and I even added a heat pad underneath the tank. Don't worry, there's like almost two inches of soil between the frog and heat pad, along with a sheet of glass, so no burns will come to the frog. I just plugged it in so hopefully the temp rises.

    If the temp remains 71 degrees, how should I make it so it's closer to 80? I added a sheet of aluminum foil around the top of the tank with a large hold cut at the middle so the heat lamp has no contact with the foil. This, as I was told, will retain humidity and heat. Any better methods beyond this? Keep in mind I'm in eastern USA, we are still in late march and it's chilly outside. That does contribute to a cooler room.

    Also I have two dimmer bulbs I can use instead of the bright daylight bulbs since you all say it's not needed or good for him. I have a black heat bulb and a red night bulb, both 60w. Should I use those as light and warmth? They aren't bright as heck but are just as warm.

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    Default Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    Davey, very carefully and slowly remove the heat pad with caution not to bend it. The wires can break and cause fires or burns. Test it to be sure it still works properly. Place it on a side wall. The silly pacs burrow down deep and I have seen some very bad burns.
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    Default Concerns About Terrarium Set-Up

    To make this easier...

    Temps:
    Young pacs need 82'F during day and can drop to 78'F or so at night. Lower will decrease their metabolism and they will not be hungry.

    Adults can drop about 2 degrees lower safely.

    Distilled water can be used for misting only and is good to prevent water spots on glass.

    You can use spring water with no chlorine, chloramines, or heavy metals in it or dechlorinated tap water to moisten all substrates and for water bowl water. Change bowl water daily.

    Humidity:
    70-80% and substrate should be moist but not muddy

    Feed crickets, worm pieces or Dubia roaches of size to the length of the distance between their eyes or less for ease of swallowing. Better to feed an extra cricket than too big of one. We want to avoid intestinal impaction. Never feed mealworms.

    Gut-load crickets with properly rinsed fresh fruits, carrots, green leafy lettuce (not iceberg), potatoes, Cheerios, flukers cricket food, etc. daily. Remove any uneaten bugs from the frogs home daily. Crickets can and do bite. Feed at lights out in early pm.

    Supplements: (amphibian or reptile brands)

    Calcium with vitamin D3:
    (Has to have the vitamin D3 with it for proper absorption)
    ~Lightly dust on insects just before feedings, every other feeding.

    Multivitamin such as Repashy calcium plus or Herptivite:
    (My frogs seem to prefer Repashy)
    ~Lightly dust insects just before frog feeding one day a week on day different than calcium/vita D3 day for best absorption.

    No special lighting is required for pacman frogs. They live on the forest floors buried in the leaves and dirt and are nocturnal. They do need some source of light to determine sleep and wake times. They should have an approximate 12 hr switch schedule of day to night with light during the day and as dark as possible at night.

    Dilemmas with heat and humidity:
    Always an issue it seems. All heat pads should be proper amphibian/reptile safe heat pads and should only be placed on side walls with any burrowing frogs. My tanks have heat "corners" in which I place a heat matt on two coinciding walls to make a nice cozy warm corner. You can add heat lamps of 50watts or less. Heat emitters are best bc they emit no light. Red lamps and black bulbs are acceptable. Remember, they are nocturnal and love it black.

    Humidity issues with heat lamps:
    Try adding tin foil to half or more of the screen lids. Have a reliable hygrometer to monitor levels. It is likely you'll have to mist 2 times per day.

    Substrates:
    Pacs can be aggressive eaters and snatch up their food quick with no regard to what's in their path. Moss can and does cause intestinal impaction if ingested. So far the safest substrate has shown to be coconut fiber (not the husk chunks). It is still best to take caution in how much they accidentally ingest.

    Once your frog has settled in and starting eating comfortably and regularly, you can try tong feeding.

    So, here's a list of what came to mind. I'm sure I've left something out that will come to me later. My brain's on slow-motion from multitasking all weekend at work. I will follow along.

    Lija and others have given great advice! As always .

    Thanks all!
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