Dart frog species question

[AbranV]

This will be an easy question compared to the plethora of questions I usually ask.

So yesterday I made it to my first reptile Expo. This trip was extra special because my lovely wife was by my side, and trying to convince her that she'll have a good time in a room full of snakes was no easy task.

What she didn't expect though, was the variety of dart frogs available Which means.......I, sorry, we get to have darts!

My question is...what are the smaller, bolder species of darts?

The breeder had a 10gallon set up with three or four small darts, I believe they were yellow-black with blue legs. They were TINY and had tons of personality. I may be off on my descriptions, I looked a so many frogs yesterday, they're all blended together.

Anyways, that's my question

Thanks!

[deranged chipmunk]

you are going to have to define smaller. thumbnails, like Ranitomeya genus? around 1", like Oophaga genus? or slightly larger? there are so many species available now, it's hard to narrow things down unless you can be a bit more specific.

[deranged chipmunk]

also, keep in mind, that you most likely saw froglets at the show. even my Phyllobates terribilis 'mint' are tiny, around 3/4", but will grow into about 2" killers.

[AbranV]

Thanks for the reply. Looking back at what I wrote, I may not have been clear as I could.

Chipmunk, you gave me what I was looking for, a general idea of smaller darts like the ones you had mentioned.

I figured that most of the frogs were froglets, but I'm so new to darts that I can't tell a froglet from a thumbnail.

I'm in the very first steps of all of this and have a lot of homework to do.

I'm sure I'll be asking quite a few more as I learn.

Thanks

[FwoGiZ]

If someone used to snakes come see me and says he saw tiny poison frogs with tons of personality, black and yellow with blue legs, I'd tell em to google "cobalt tinctorius" and tell me if that is what you've seen.
If that is the case, well these are considered large dart frogs Good thing tho, is they're a GREAT "beginner" dart frog. They're super bold and eat anything! Great colors, easy to find healthy frogs!
Read a lil bit about vivarium and self sustainability then when you feel confortable, cobalt tincts would be an awesome choice!!!

"advanced" frogs would be quite boring to avg people... check out dendrobates azureus too, and definitely phyllobates terribilis (my fav

[deranged chipmunk]

The op is asking about smaller frogs. Tincs and terribilis are some of the largest darts.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[Ssyx]

Epipedobates anthonyi are small but quite bold ones.

[AbranV]

Thanks for all the help. I found this little guy at PETCO.

Cobalt tinc? He was less than an inch, awesome personality, very active.

PETCO had it listed as an azures. I asked the guy that worked there, and wasn't sure, nothing against him, he's not the normal reptile guy.

This little frog was the same that I was trying to explain in my OP

[AbranV]

oops, forgot the pic

[DigitalPunk]

I am not an expert at IDing frogs, but that looks like a Patricia to me and not a cobalt. That frog will get between 1.5 and 2" or so depending on if it is male or female. a 10g tank for the one will be ok for a while but you will want to look into a 20L tank at some point.

[deranged chipmunk]

I really hate to agree with Paul, but I do in the fact that that is not a cobalt. I mean, it's not a clear pic, but I would say it's either a patricia, or an oyapock. Both D. Tinctorius morphs, so care is the same.

Here's a pic of one of my patricia froglets you can compare to



Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[FwoGiZ]

Ya the frog in the picture isn't a cobalt.
Same care veryyy similar behavior too. Same colors. Different patterns and body shape.

[AbranV]

I just got an email back from the breeder that I met at the expo last weekend. He said that the darts he had on display were Dendrobates tinctorius “Green sip”.

My next set of questions....

The green sip and Patricia were very active frogs, the Patricia was especially "playful" . Is this a common trait among tincs?

Also, there's a few more days left on petco's $1 per gallon sale. What would be a good size tank for 2-3 tincs? Let's say Patricia's or green sips.

[FwoGiZ]

Yes tincts are quite bold and like to hangout in the open. Auratus are much shyer frogs while pumilios are interesting because of their breeding and mating behavior while not as bold as tincts. Terribilis are even better at this than tincts and bigger sized and much more voracious but I guess their patterbless uni color (mint, yellow or orange) goes against them.

All in all, I think you are marking a very good choice of frog!
Tank wise, they're terrestrial frogs so 2-3 would be good in a 24x12 but i'd try and get at least 30x12 if I was you.
Height depends what false bottom and plants you wanna use.
30x12x18 is what I'd get. Make sure you get the good female/male ratio.. it's important for tincts else they'll fight.
Don't remember what it is tho :/

[DigitalPunk]

I would get a 40b from the $1 a gallon sale. They measure in at 36 Long, 18 Deep, and 16ish tall.

Tincs are all in all a very bold. They do great in groups until they reach sexual maturity. Males will fight over females and territory. The females can eat other females eggs. They are just big jerks like that. You can combat this by designing your tank with some "line of sight" breaks along the substrate. This will allow competing frogs to stay out of each others view. With frogs it seems that the old saying is true "Out of Site, out of mind"

[deranged chipmunk]

I agree with Paul on the size. That's the size I keep my 4 Patricias in.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[AbranV]

I really appreciate all of the help and sharing of your knowledge with all of my questions. Everyone has been a huge help.

But I do have TWO more....

If I go with the darts, would it be OK to start with one, then add another? Or best to get a pair?

And the toughest, most difficult, bang-my-head against the wall, sleep losing question of them all....

Darts or Pacmans?

Seriously, this is the most difficult one of them all

[DigitalPunk]

1 is fine and then adding more as you go. Nothing wrong with that.

I can't help you with the Darts or Pacmans. 2 totally different frogs with very different care needs you will need to keep. I can say that housing a dart and a Pacman together would be a bad idea ( i know you didn't mean it like that I am just being silly :P )

[flybyferns]

I just got an email back from the breeder that I met at the expo last weekend. He said that the darts he had on display were Dendrobates tinctorius “Green sip”.

My next set of questions....

The green sip and Patricia were very active frogs, the Patricia was especially "playful" . Is this a common trait among tincs?

Also, there's a few more days left on petco's $1 per gallon sale. What would be a good size tank for 2-3 tincs? Let's say Patricia's or green sips.

I think you might send a photo to the breeder for an accurate identification?
This is especially true if you plan to add another frog as species should not be mixed.
??? I'm questioning the light blue legs?

Here is a pair of Dendrobates tinctorius 'Green Sipaliwini'


sorry - blurry
better photo - young adult:
http://www.frogforum.net/members/fly...ipaliwini.html

additional photos:

green sip
Dendrobates tinctorius 'Green Sipaliwini' - Dendrobates tinctorius | Josh's Frogs

oyapok
Dendrobates tinctorius 'Oyapok' - Dendrobates tinctorius | Josh's Frogs

patricia
Dendrobates tinctorius 'Patricia' - Dendrobates tinctorius | Josh's Frogs

There can be differences in appearances from one import year to another.
Some species have more differences than others.

[AbranV]

I think you might send a photo to the breeder for an accurate identification?
This is especially true if you plan to add another frog as species should not be mixed.
??? I'm questioning the light blue legs?

Here is a pair of Dendrobates tinctorius 'Green Sipaliwini'


sorry - blurry
better photo - young adult:
http://www.frogforum.net/members/fly...ipaliwini.html

additional photos:

green sip
Dendrobates tinctorius 'Green Sipaliwini' - Dendrobates tinctorius | Josh's Frogs

oyapok
Dendrobates tinctorius 'Oyapok' - Dendrobates tinctorius | Josh's Frogs

patricia
Dendrobates tinctorius 'Patricia' - Dendrobates tinctorius | Josh's Frogs

There can be differences in appearances from one import year to another.
Some species have more differences than others.

Sorry about the confusion on the darts, the pic I posted was from PETCO. In the OP I mentioned that I met a breeder, and at the time I had not heard back from him.

From this post alone I've learned more about darts and their subtle differences, than I had by randomly surfing the forum.

Thanks again everyone!