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Thread: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

  1. #1
    FrogsFascinated
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    Exclamation Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    I am a newer frog owner (About 2 months ago a friend of a friend had to sell her WTF) and he has been doing well, has prolapsed twice, but my mother used to be a vet tech so we have no problems with that when it does occasionally happen... and I woke up this morning and he can't move his back legs... but he was wedged between the wall of his tank, and a "piece of land" so I got him out and noticed one of his back legs was puffy and firmer than the other. I did some research, and I read that lack of calcium can cause prolapses, as well as leg paralysis/weakness. Would it be more likely a lack of calcium or back injury from being wedged in a tight space? I do know he wasn't stuck last night before I went to bed. Today is feeding day, so I'll be feeding him a little later today, so I don't know how his appetite is. I'll try to update after I feed Pogo (His name ... Perfect for a lazy WTF am I right??? xD)

    Thanks!!!

    ~Emily

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  3. #2
    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Hey, I'm not an expert (only got my White's a month ago) but I've read a lot and I'd like to suggest trying Calcium with D3 supplements. It might only be from being wedged, but that PLUS the prolapses look a little suspicious. Occasional supplementation probably won't hurt.

  4. #3
    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    There may be some emergency step you need to take since he's paralyzed. Other people on here would know what to do. Also, in the future can I suggest posting something like this to the 'Tree Frogs' forum? More people will see it that way.

  5. #4
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Elly, I'll move this thread.

    now. Please answer the questions below so we can help you better. Thank you.



    - try to answer as many questions as possible.
    - if you do not know an answer to a question say "I don't know" rather than leaving it blank.


    QUESTIONS

    1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
    2----please include a photo of the frog
    3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
    4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
    5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
    6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
    7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
    8----what is the typical humidity level
    9----what temperature is maintained
    10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
    12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
    13---what kind of water is used
    -----for misting
    -----for the frog's soaking dish
    -----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
    14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
    15---enclosure set up:
    -----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
    -----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
    -----describe wood, bark , and background materials
    16---when is the last time the frog ate
    17---have you found poop lately
    18---how often is the frog fed
    19---what size feeder is given
    20---what other feeders are used as treats
    21---what is the frog's main food source
    22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
    23---vitamins - what brand and how often
    24---calcium - what brand and how often
    25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
    26---approximate age of the frog
    27---how long have you owned the frog
    28---who cared for the frog before you
    29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
    31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
    30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
    -----for how long
    32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
    -----for what
    -----name of medication
    -----for how long
    -----what dose
    -----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  6. #5
    100+ Post Member Strider18's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    I would answer the questions as lija suggests. Hope your frog does better

    Lija did you steal Lynns butterfly?

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  7. #6
    FrogsFascinated
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Hello, and thanks for moving this thread, I just made the account today! :P
    1- Whites Tree Frog
    (I do not have images right now, although he has a filter in his tank that's like a mini "Waterfall" if you will, that's made of fake rocks.. but that only circulates the water a little it's not like it's a huge current, and he also has a land spot that has moss on it.)
    4-W 20", D 10", H 17"
    5-He's the only creature in the tank
    6-No previous tank mate
    7-No new tank mate
    8-I'm not sure, but he does have a light on the top of the tank, with a screen on top for ventilation.
    9-I'm not sure of temperature either
    10-He has a light, I'm not sure if it is supposed to heat, or just provide light
    11-The light is as long as the tank (about 20") and is turned on during the day, but left off at night
    12-We change the water when it starts to look cloudy and we fully drain it, put in new water, drain it again, and repeat till it's clean
    13-We use aged tap water (We put it in a container for a few days, that's what his owner used to do)
    14-He has moss in his tank, but that's just so he has a place to get out of the water
    15-About 1/3 of the tank on one side is a moss platform, on other side of tank there's a filter that pumps the water up and lets it run down some fake rocks, and then between the two there's some space with just water. There are some fabric plants in the two corners where the moss platform is.
    16-I just fed him before I replied to this post (So around 5:15ish today)
    17-I found poo this morning
    18-He gets fed every Tuesday and Saturday
    19-He gets fed Superworms (He usually eats 2-3, but today only ate 1 )
    20-He doesn't get fed anything else
    21-Superworms
    22-He's fed in a separate tub, or else he doesn't eat the worms and they muck up the water
    23-No vitamins, at least while we've had him
    24-No calcium while he's been with us
    25-Yes
    27-I'm not sure, if his previous owner was giving it, for about 1-1/2 to 2 months
    28-A friend of a friend (Sadly she passed from a rare form of cancer, which is why we have Pogo)
    29-I believe captive bread
    30-No gloves are used, we handle him when he is eating, and sometimes we'll bring him out to give him a bath (help him get off shedding skin he missed)
    31-It's in my brother's room, we usually go in and check on him a few times a day (Since he's been getting stuck lately) and my brother is constantly in and out of his room
    32-Not that I know of
    33- We have not treated him with anything

    Thanks for helping guys!!! Is there a specific brand of calcium treatment that anyone recommends/likes/uses???

    ~Emily

  8. #7
    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    I googled Superworms and apparently they have varying levels of calcium. As far as supplements I use Repashy Plus calcium which has other vitamins too, but I think any CalD3 supplement could work. (Experienced people, feel free to contradict me.) The supplement's not too hard to find, I found a jar of Fluker's Calcium plus D3 at my local walmart.

  9. #8
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Hi Emily and welcome see in blue below, thank you for answering the questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrogsFascinated View Post
    Hello, and thanks for moving this thread, I just made the account today! :P
    1- Whites Tree Frog
    (I do not have images right now, although he has a filter in his tank that's like a mini "Waterfall" if you will, that's made of fake rocks.. but that only circulates the water a little it's not like it's a huge current, and he also has a land spot that has moss on it.)
    4-W 20", D 10", H 17"
    too small. How big is a frog?

    5-He's the only creature in the tank
    6-No previous tank mate
    7-No new tank mate
    8-I'm not sure, but he does have a light on the top of the tank, with a screen on top for ventilation.
    9-I'm not sure of temperature either
    10-He has a light, I'm not sure if it is supposed to heat, or just provide light
    11-The light is as long as the tank (about 20") and is turned on during the day, but left off at night
    12-We change the water when it starts to look cloudy and we fully drain it, put in new water, drain it again, and repeat till it's clean
    13-We use aged tap water (We put it in a container for a few days, that's what his owner used to do)
    14-He has moss in his tank, but that's just so he has a place to get out of the water
    15-About 1/3 of the tank on one side is a moss platform, on other side of tank there's a filter that pumps the water up and lets it run down some fake rocks, and then between the two there's some space with just water. There are some fabric plants in the two corners where the moss platform is.
    16-I just fed him before I replied to this post (So around 5:15ish today)
    17-I found poo this morning
    18-He gets fed every Tuesday and Saturday
    19-He gets fed Superworms (He usually eats 2-3, but today only ate 1 )
    20-He doesn't get fed anything else
    21-Superworms
    22-He's fed in a separate tub, or else he doesn't eat the worms and they muck up the water
    23-No vitamins, at least while we've had him
    24-No calcium while he's been with us
    25-Yes
    27-I'm not sure, if his previous owner was giving it, for about 1-1/2 to 2 months
    28-A friend of a friend (Sadly she passed from a rare form of cancer, which is why we have Pogo)
    29-I believe captive bread
    30-No gloves are used, we handle him when he is eating, and sometimes we'll bring him out to give him a bath (help him get off shedding skin he missed)
    31-It's in my brother's room, we usually go in and check on him a few times a day (Since he's been getting stuck lately) and my brother is constantly in and out of his room
    32-Not that I know of
    33- We have not treated him with anything

    Thanks for helping guys!!! Is there a specific brand of calcium treatment that anyone recommends/likes/uses???

    ~Emily
    sorry.... I started, but.... Emily, you need to go shopping and change almost everything.... Poor froggy....

    Please read this Frog Forum - White's Tree Frog Care - Litoria caerulea

    get proper humidity and temperature gauges. - Walmart, etc, any combo they sell for home, I think it's about 6-8$.

    food - no superworms! They are fattening and very hard to digest = impaction and overweight unhealthy frog.

    Water - you need to get watet conditioner, I prefer Prime, but any water conditioner they sell for fish tanks or reptiles will do.

    Take all moss out too.
    You need to get ca/d3 and multivitamin powders.

    the things you needs to do asap. Get unflavoured pedyalite, do a bath for a frog. Warm solution (80ishF), level no higher then frogs chin, 20 min. Solution you need 1 part of water, 5 parts of pedyalite. do baths every day for 4-5 days, same concentration. Please update how it goes, depending on a situation the concentration might be different.

    get repti aid by fluckers ( i think). Use it daily, you can just dust food with it every feeding for at least 2 weeks.

    for absolutely everything use only conditioned water.

    When you post pic of your set up I have a very strong feeling you will need to change things here too.

    if you have to handle Pogo - wash your hands well, then put on disposable no powdered gloves or rinse your hands in conditioned water.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  10. This member thanks Lija for this post:


  11. #9
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Hello and welcome to FF! I'm sorry your frog is sick; guess the chlorine in water and lack of CA/D3 finally got to it. Please follow Lija's advice as soon as possible. This is the product she recommended: Repta Boost Insectivore/Carnivore.

    You need to dechlorinate water because today's chloramines are stable in water and will not gas off like chlorine of the past.

    For vitamins you can get separate products (CA/D3 and vitamins) from either Repashy (what I use) or RepCal. Here are some sample schedules to get you started: http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...schedules.html. Repashy also has an all in one product called Calcium Plus made for daily use. If you can't find Pedialyte; any unflavored plain baby electrolyte solution will do. Good luck!
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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  13. #10
    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    I didn't know modern chlorine was stable in water. Thanks!

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    Moderator deranged chipmunk's Avatar
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    Default Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Quote Originally Posted by elly View Post
    I didn't know modern chlorine was stable in water. Thanks!
    Chlorine is not stable, and will off gas. Chloramines (and heavy metals) will not. They need to be dissipated chemically.


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  15. #12
    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Quote Originally Posted by deranged chipmunk View Post
    Chlorine is not stable, and will off gas. Chloramines (and heavy metals) will not. They need to be dissipated chemically.


    Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela
    That's what I meant. Chloramines. Thanks.

  16. #13
    FrogsFascinated
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Thanks for all the advice guys!!!
    Lija, don't think I'm trying to prove you wrong, I'm just giving you facts that I know. Pogo is 10, and he's lived healthily in his tank, and on his food, and the way the water is used for that long... My parents and I now think that it is from becoming wedged and that he has some sort of injury, he's not doing so well and we think he's going to pass. He's prolapsed again today and my mom flushed out his intestinal track and got him to poo (and also remember my mom was a vet tech, don't worry, she wouldn't do anything to him if she didn't know what she was doing) and the fact of his age, and based on how he's doing... he's not eating his food (We got a power calcium supplement by the way, but he hasn't eaten anything since) Would it be a good idea (And safe for him) if we mixed the supplement with water and gave it to him with a syringe?
    We're starting to worry because lately he's been changing colors and has some patches of green on random places of his body (Legs, back, side)... could that be something serious, or not so much? We got a different light for him I know one of them is a heat lamp, and the other is a UV lamp I believe.. although I'm not sure. My mother is the one who purchased them, this ( Amazon.com: Zoo Med Mini Combo Deep Dome Lamp Fixture, Black: Pet Supplies ) is it as far as I know...

    Thanks so much for helping me guys! It really means a lot

    ~Emily
    P.S... I just noticed I had typed "bread" up there instead of "bred" Hehe... woops. That was a typo, I'm not awful with grammar I swear xD

  17. #14
    FrogsFascinated
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Okay, I don't know whether to we mildly surprised, or worried, or what. Before I posted the previous post telling about the green spots... he had the green spots on him... and when I finished the post and posted it, I went in and checked on Pogo.. and the spots are completely gone O.o

  18. #15
    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    From reading around on the forum, lime green spots seem to be generally a bad sign. People often mention them when a frog is sick or dying. But my frog had them once when I first got him and he's still okay so I don't know. I think my frog had a case of uneven shedding caused by spraying him with water. Now when I mist during the day I try not to hit the frog directly which would remove the protective layer of waxy stuff that keeps him from drying out. At night time I don't think it matters so much since he's ready to do his regular soak/shed thing then.

    I'm not surprised that he doesn't want to eat, given the repeated prolapse. And...sorry I don't know about giving a frog emergency calcium, maybe someone else here can help you.

  19. #16
    FrogsFascinated
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Thanks Elly! All of you guys have been a big help ^.^
    He's been getting daily baths to keep him moist, since he can't use his back legs to get in and out of his water... and he enjoys them... I wash any dishes in our sink, along with anything else that's in there, and I fill it up about 1 inch, so he can move around with his front legs, without drowning.

    On another note, I have pictures now!!! I'm sorry about this first one I didn't realize it was blurry and the glass was spotty till I had it on my PC... And I just took these pics today ;-)
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  20. #17
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Quote Originally Posted by FrogsFascinated View Post
    Thanks Elly! All of you guys have been a big help ^.^
    He's been getting daily baths to keep him moist, since he can't use his back legs to get in and out of his water... and he enjoys them... I wash any dishes in our sink, along with anything else that's in there, and I fill it up about 1 inch, so he can move around with his front legs, without drowning.

    On another note, I have pictures now!!! I'm sorry about this first one I didn't realize it was blurry and the glass was spotty till I had it on my PC... And I just took these pics today ;-)
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    Ok....... it's all clear now. This frog is morbidly obese! As a human with the same condition I can assure you, your frog is dying from being too FAT. He needs room to move, he needs a diet that has less fat in it; the obesity could be a big contributor to both the paralysis and the prolapse. Get him into a bigger tank where he can move around. At this point with him being unable to climb I'd at least get him a terrestrial tank that is much larger (other opinions here?) I wouldn't worry about him not eating for a while but the Pedialyte soak is definitely a good idea. I also know that a lot of handling isn't good, but I'd take this guy out daily and just see if he's willing to crawl back and forth... don't want to stress him either though, so it's a c.r.a.p shoot how to manage this.

    I also HIGHLY recommend you follow the suggestions given by these fine folks on housing and all other respects. They've been on the frog scene for a good while and have the experience to back up their knowledge. Good luck with Pogo, I hope you can pull him through, I'm rooting for him!
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


  21. #18
    100+ Post Member Louis Charles Bruckner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    What I think what might have happened is that he wedged himself into that tight
    area and cut off the blood supply to his legs and suffered some permeant damage.



  22. #19
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Charles Bruckner View Post
    What I think what might have happened is that he wedged himself into that high area and cut off the blood supply to his legs and suffered some permeant damage.
    Possibly, or it might be temporary. But circulation can be messed up at that weight anyway, poor guy
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


  23. #20
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Calcium Lack Paralysis or Back Injury???

    Sry i wasn't around to respond sooner.


    That is very sad! Very very sad situation. I feel very sorry for a frog, that wasn't a life for the guy, that was and still is suffering for the frog. He is not healthy by any means. It is cruel and animal abuse. It is a perfect example of how some frogs want to live, they live through lots of things, including this.

    Emily, a frog is not dead yet, so there is still a hope, not much of it though. Please help him before it's too late.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

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