Done stalking the site, Time to say Hello

[LisaGarcia]

Hello! I am a previous keeper of 2 wonderful Whites Tree Frog's. They passed last winter and after a proper mourning period Hubby and I have decided that it's too quiet in our home. We had them since we had first moved in together and they were a wonderful constant in our lives. We saved up and bought the HUGE 36x16x36 Exo-terra to home our soon to be new babies. Now it's time to make sure we get everything right and not just from a book. There is so much more info out and better ways to care for these wonderful additions to our family. We had a waterfall feature (One of those plastic ones) in our previous tank. I think it's WAY too small for our the new one. We are trying to get ideas and finalize our set up. Right now the tank sits empty on it's stand in our livingroom. It's very lonely yet extremely exciting all at the same time. Sorry, I tend to ramble..

Questions for the "old hands" at this:

Without doing a water feature and just having a hydro balls, screen, moss, plantation soil, live plant set up with a mister (yes, we are going all out lol) would this be enough water to keep our little guys happy? Or do they really like the moving water?

I have absolutely NO desire to build my own background, I do not have that kind of talent. The terrarium came with a foam one. Is it safe to use or should I throw it out?

I have some previous loved LARGE climbing branches that were in a ball python set up for many years. Would, after doing the bleach soak and rinse (they are too big to fit in the oven) would they be safe? I do not know the type of wood as they came with the snake when she was given to me. If not, how would I go about disinfecting bamboo rods (I have a large area FULL of them)

How do you upload a photo for your profile pic?

Ok, I think that's it for now. Thank you for all your help!

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF ! You do not need moving water; but should provide a soaking dish cleaned with hot water and refilled with dechlorinated tap (Seachem Prime or ExoTerra Aquatize) daily.

Issue with foam background is feeders getting behind it and dying in there, also takes out enclosure space. Would go with no background (see Lynn's/Flybyferns vine building thread in forum's vivarium section) or use a paper you like on the outside. Aquarium background does not come that big; but have seen natural looking door covers at Michael's or similar stores that think would work OK.

Yes, can soak wood in 10% bleach solution, follow up with another soak in 4X dechlorinator solution, rinse with tap water, then dry well in sun before use.

Myself don't upload pics to forum and just upload to a Photobucket account and then paste image codes from there straight into posts or any forum area .

[LisaGarcia]

Thanks Carlos. Do you by any chance know how to sanitize bamboo? Would it work the same way? I have some dried and some live that I am planning on cutting down.

[LisaGarcia]

Issue with foam background is feeders getting behind it and dying in there, also takes out enclosure space. Would go with no background (see Lynn's/Flybyferns vine building thread in forum's vivarium section) or use a paper you like on the outside. Aquarium background does not come that big; but have seen natural looking door covers at Michael's or similar stores that think would work OK.



Do you by chance have a link to that thread? I can't find it.

[Lija]

Hello! I am a previous keeper of 2 wonderful Whites Tree Frog's. They passed last winter and after a proper mourning period Hubby and I have decided that it's too quiet in our home. We had them since we had first moved in together and they were a wonderful constant in our lives. We saved up and bought the HUGE 36x16x36 Exo-terra to home our soon to be new babies. Now it's time to make sure we get everything right and not just from a book. There is so much more info out and better ways to care for these wonderful additions to our family. We had a waterfall feature (One of those plastic ones) in our previous tank. I think it's WAY too small for our the new one. We are trying to get ideas and finalize our set up. Right now the tank sits empty on it's stand in our livingroom. It's very lonely yet extremely exciting all at the same time. Sorry, I tend to ramble..

Questions for the "old hands" at this:

Without doing a water feature and just having a hydro balls, screen, moss, plantation soil, live plant set up with a mister (yes, we are going all out lol) would this be enough water to keep our little guys happy? Or do they really like the moving water?

I have absolutely NO desire to build my own background, I do not have that kind of talent. The terrarium came with a foam one. Is it safe to use or should I throw it out?

I have some previous loved LARGE climbing branches that were in a ball python set up for many years. Would, after doing the bleach soak and rinse (they are too big to fit in the oven) would they be safe? I do not know the type of wood as they came with the snake when she was given to me. If not, how would I go about disinfecting bamboo rods (I have a large area FULL of them)

How do you upload a photo for your profile pic?

Ok, I think that's it for now. Thank you for all your help!

Hi, and welcome!

Oh boy....exo 36x18x36.... My dream..... Look you went all out already, i very strongly suggest to carry on doing it. Take your time, read this http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...ion-101-a.html
Start a thread in vivarium construction forum, ask million of questions, listen to what people are advising. I can guarantee you you will not regret it and your tank is gonna be smth absolutely beautiful. And you will be laughing at yourself remembering how difficult and impossible it looked before. I know i did lol
Telling ya, if i was able to do it anyone can! Im serious here lol custom foam background is the easiest thing to do! And very fun too.

But now im going to hope depots buyng stuff that i never knew existed, know what is good what is not, and everything thanks to people here. And i love my tank, which is a weird..... Lol

[LisaGarcia]

Thank you. I have been reading over so many different threads and gushing about all the amazing frogs and gorgeous terrariums! My dear sweet super hubby had been saving his bonus money from work and when he got enough he told me to get the terrarium! He really misses having frogs in the home! We have been learning a lot the past few months, making sure we get it right. I feel so horrible at where I had Timon and Pumba but they put up with me and still loved to hang out. They used to even tease the cat from the safety of their home!

Thank you so much for the vote of confidence! We are going to the Baltimore reptile show this weekend. Maybe the DH will open up to the idea of letting get some spray foam and go ALL out.

[jarteta97]

Welcome to the Forum!! You really have gone all out already, and I can't wait to see how it turns out By doing research and really planning it out, you're taking the right steps. Listen to Carlos and Lija and really just putz around the vivarium section.

I have absolutely NO desire to build my own background, I do not have that kind of talent. The terrarium came with a foam one. Is it safe to use or should I throw it out?

You really don't need any talent at all to build a foam background IMO. I'm really not the creative/artistic type, but I just sprayed the foam, and it kind of just naturally looks good after being covered in silicone and coco fiber, etc. If you really just don't trust yourself doing a foam background, I would recommend you buy cork flats from a pet store or online and simply silicone those to the background. It forms a very natural background, in which you can pin plants, etc. and is really cheap and easy to to do.

Doing a waterfall can be a bit more of a challenge, something I wouldn't attempt until I gained a lot more experience. A water feature, however, such as a natural pond, is easy to do, and can look reaaaaally nice IMO. If you want a waterfall, a dripwall would be easiest, which really consists of a submerged pump, with tubing running to the top of a background, and setting the pump to allow a trickle of water to kind of cascade down the background. It's quite beautiful, and just creates a beautiful feature.

For a tank this big, I would go with a false bottom, as you would have to buy a LOT of hydroballs for an 18x36 footprint. You can build a false bottom out of egg crate (light difuser), which can be found at hardware stores, and PVC pipe. Like Carlos and Lija said, check out Vivarium Construction 101 for how to do this. Overall, it would be maybe $30 for a false bottom compared to probably $50+ for hydroballs and a soil separator. The pond could be incorporated by simply cutting out the area you would want it to be and sloping the soil towards that water, to create a more natural transition. You can check out our moderator Paul's tank, or even my tank for this:

http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...d-journal.html
http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...d-journal.html

Btw, sorry if I just vomit ideas on the page, that's just how I am

If you're going for live plants, plantation soil just aint gonna cut it. You would need ABG (Atlanta Botanical Garden) mix or a similar recipe, such as NEherp's mix (website below), to offer a quick draining soil that's nutrient rich and ... alive. For WTFs, you would need really sturdy plants, such as snake plants, pothos, and other thick stemmed "tropical" plants you may find at a garden store.

For the branches, it would really be necessary for you to know what kind of wood it actually is. Since you don't, posting pics would really help us to maybe determine what kind they are.

Once again, sorry for the rambling, but I do like to kind of give other people ideas that I would someday like to utilize myself. I sort of create my dream tanks through other people, lol. Does that sound weird?

Any other questions, just ask, we at Frog Forum love to help.

[LisaGarcia]

Thank you Josh! Vomit away!!

I showed the DH some youtube videos last night about backgrounds and false bottoms. He is liking the idea. He, however, thinks figuring out how to do a waterfall/drip wall with a mini creek to a "pool" would be a great idea. (His Dad always says, if you are going to be a bear, be a grizzly...)

What we have come up with so far is a false bottom, a water feature and quite possibly building the background on our own. (He got really excited and said that we could do that very easily!) I will take your advice on the dirt and get something of better quality since we will be doing live plants. Once it's ALL put together, we are giving ourselves a month to make sure everything (growth, water, temp, humidity, monsoon thing working) is perfect before picking up the new WTF's.

We are thinking 4-5. Do you think once it's all put together that is would still be big enough for that many? I know it's 20 gal for the first frog and 10 for each extra at around 90 gal empty 8 frogs seems a bit much? Let me know if I am wrong on that calc..

I stole a list from previous posts on plants for WTF's.. Broms, Pothos, Alocasia, Dieffenbachia, Dracaena, and vining philodendrons. Not really sold on the last one. We also really like the "ground stars". I have a spider plant that keeps puking out babies and might add one or two of those along with some live bamboo, I am not really worried about the frog rearranging anything or killing a plant, I am more worried about making sure everything in there is safe for them. (Frogs first, plants second, sorry deranged chipmunk)

I have seen some people putting live "bugs" in the dirt to eat and kill the nasty stuff.. Do any of you do this? They are live micro-organisms or something along those lines (I am HORRIBLE with technical names)

As for the existing wood from my snake cage, DH said no. He said that was Baby's, (snake's name, don't judge, I didn't name her, she fit in the palm of my nephews hand (he was 4) when the original owner bought her) and no one else will love it like she did. I am interested in possibly being able to use some of the hollow core bamboo I have been cutting down in the back yard (Not sure what I hate most in my yard, the virginia ivy or the bamboo) I would really like to find a way to sanitize some of that! Would I have to dry it out first or sanitize it while freshly cut?

[flybyferns]

Hello,
Welcome to Frog Forum

The wood ( of any kind, from anywhere) should be either boiled, baked or both.
If it small I boil, if is larger I bake - 220 for 45 min ...or so

As for substrate janitors--there are 2
1 sprintails
2 isopods
IMO - the best can be purchased here
they can be used together
-the sprintails are an important supply to always have on-hand if you are considering darts as they are a staple food item

Josh's springtails - are delivered and cultured in charcoal. When you get them they may look like 'dead' ...but they're not
You will want to get some glad containers and separate a single delivery into 3 separate containers ( I use glad sandwich size containers) I find this size container makes it easy to add a little distilled water ( 1/2" ) into the container---tip it and use a metal teaspoon to get the srpings out. Tip: springs will not climb onto a plastic spoon ( go figure?)
Springtails - Feeder Insects and Supplies | Josh's Frogs

This works very well--- but make sure you make a few air holes in the glad sandwich container if you use it.

Josh's Frogs Spring to Life Springtail Food (5 oz) - Springtails | Josh's Frogs
Isopods
16oz Dwarf Tropical White Isopod Starter Culture | Josh's Frogs

Misting: Think about a 'Mist King' ( Jungle Hobbies ) rather than the monsoon ?
I think if I had to make a short list of best purchases my Mist Kings would be in the top 3

Lights to keep the plants healthy: ( out of stock at the moment -- they expect them in about 3 weeks ? )
7" Jungle Dawn 11W LED Screw In NEW 6.5+/-K For Planted Vivs!

Sorry, I can not really help or offer any experienced/advice on the products used for backgrounds ( except for folius).
I don't use any chemicals of any kind in my frog enclosures--- simply a personal preference; ie I have never used foam.

Sharing: I have NO background or very simple backgrounds manufactured by a company that actually not be making then anymore
MagNaturals
You would have to call and ask. I have used pet tech products in every tank.

Folius:
Store - Folius Enterprises LLC
Super product to become comfortable with.

May I respectfully suggest the water feature be seriously considered, Whites and most tree frogs DO NOT need a water feature.
Unless of course, there is plenty of 'aquarium' experience it adds an additional lever of maintenance.
ie Whites and red eye tree frogs we be easier to care for with a soaking dish the can be remove daily and rinsed in hot water.

[Mentat]

Thanks Carlos. Do you by any chance know how to sanitize bamboo? Would it work the same way? I have some dried and some live that I am planning on cutting down.

Treat same as any wood.

Do you by chance have a link to that thread? I can't find it.

Searched for it; but could not find. Maybe she posted pics in one of Bill's (DerangedChipmunk) threads.

Lynn: Do you have link to thread with pics of your background less vivariums? Thank you !

[jarteta97]

Here's some of her tanks, all I could find:

http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...-overhaul.html

[LisaGarcia]

Thanks Josh,

I actually just checked out her photo album and got ALL KINDS of ideas! I will bring them up with DH tonight. We have time to get the best layout and plan for us and our WTF's to be

Lynn, OMG, THANK YOU!! I have been reading and looking and getting all kinds of ideas and rethinking the water feature! My poor DH has no idea what has started! LOL

I really like the idea of hanging plants at different levels and the hooks would make that happen VERY easily! IT also helps get rid of the foam from eating up so much precious space. thank you.

Where you do get or how do you get the wood to stick to the side of the tank? Is it with just a hanger or?

[deranged chipmunk]

Oooohh, a larger white's build? Sweet! Welcome to the forum, btw!!

Bamboo should be cut on both ends, with no live shoots attached, then dried for a few weeks to ensure it is dead. The last thing you want in your tank is live bamboo. If you think you hate it in your yard, you'll hate it more in a Viv. If you like the bamboo look, you could use the dracaena species known as "lucky bamboo", a small horsetail fern, or even a smaller papyrus species.

Broms, like neoregalia, aren't really from their neck of the woods, and depending on how you keep your white's, may suffer from a lack of humidity.

I know Lynn states that white's do not need a water feature, and she is correct, it is not necessary, but boy, do they love water. Mine used to go for nightly swims. But it does add for more issues in the tank and things can turn quickly and without notice when you add more features into the tank.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[LisaGarcia]

My previous wtf's LOVED the water too. They would swim and hide in it! Pumba had even found a hiding spot he loved to sleep in during the day!

I am really torn on the water feature. I love the idea of having a waterfall with a "creek" and small pool for them. I don't like the extra maintenance but at the same time I really DO NOT want standing water sitting in hydro balls either. I am hoping the Baltimore expo has some really good vivs to see so we can get ideas and what not.

Deranged Chipmunk, Could you recommend something similar to neoregelia that would do well in a wtf tank? I know I am probably jumping the gun on finding plants but I want it all planned out, down to the last piece of dirt.

[deranged chipmunk]

How about dracaena sanderiana?
http://www.exoticangel.com/plant-lib...217-sanderiana
Or dracaena 'white jewel'?
http://www.exoticangel.com/plant-lib...18-white-jewel



Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[LisaGarcia]

I will take 2 of each please They are beautiful! and I bet the wtf's would love them!!

[deranged chipmunk]

And they are very common. You should be able to find them at most big box garden centers


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[DigitalPunk]

I'm late to the part per usual lol.

You have already been given so much advise I don't think I have anything more to offer other than my standard one liner I hand out to anyone starting a new build.

Builds are a marathon not a sprint. Don't rush to the finish, but enjoy the journey

Oh and to say that a water feature (needed or not) should be carefully considered. They have a way of turning into nightmares that will frustrate you and (even for experienced builders) can win in the end and end up getting ripped out.

Have you considered either drilling the tank for drainage or taking it somewhere to get drilled. This will allow excess water to drain off the tank and not sit stagnant in the bottom and need to be manually siphoned out.

The micro fauna you add will make their way down to the water to breed so some standing water in the drainage layer of the tank is nearly a must. If they can't find water down there you will see them congregating in the water bowl

[LisaGarcia]

Digital punk, as long as you bring the good stuff, you can be late to a party

I am not rushing this at all! I want to make it right! I don't want to settle and then be unhappy with it later on. I want it to work properly, get the plants to thrive, the microfauna to survive, and everything to work before I pick up the wtf's. The plan was Christmas time but if I don't get them until March, I am ok too.

The clean up crew will go and propagate on their own without cultures?! Will the wtf's eat the micro fauna too? I am honestly worried about them not eating them and then having too many.. Will they attack/effect the wtf's? Now to google the clean up crew.. The plan is to get the wtf's while they are small but they grow.. Will a grown adult eat them?

I want a water feature. I am just not 100% sure how big or elaborate I want. Even if it's just one of those store bought water falls that's contained in itself or the fancy rain system.. I have been wracking my brain and even dreaming about what and how I am going to do it. I have gone so far as to open up AutoCAD and started laying stuff out. Maybe I should open up Revit or even Inventor.. that could simulate water and moving parts... ****! There goes my free time

I did pick out the pieces of bamboo I will be cutting down next weekend to dry, sanitize to use. They are gorgeous, and at over 10' tall, I can use the different thickness parts in different areas.

Taking the tank somewhere is not possible. The thing weighs over 90lbs, It's BIG and awkward to carry and I can't fit it in my mustang safely. I thought about using the false bottom with some hydroballs, putting in the old pump at a cut out/hinged are of the egg crate in the very front and just plugging it if the water gets too high.

I have been searching the sites everyone has posted, doing all the research and am overloaded with ideas. Now to nail one down and go with it! That way I can start hammering out the details.

[DigitalPunk]

Lisa,

Don't know how I missed your response, but I will deflect the blame and move onto answering your questions.

Hope your design and planning are moving right along. It can be hard to pick your way through the 1000 ideas that pop into your head, but to me the design phase is one of my favorite parts.

Micro Fauna - As far as I know whites... even baby whites will not eat them. They are just simply to small to interest them. The microfauna will not bother or harm your frogs. They are only interested in decaying organic matter and have not time to try and eat a frog . Since your frogs will not be actively hunting them one culture of springtails will be plenty to add to the soil. They will go forth and multiply. It is actually really cool to turn over some leaf liter several months down the road and see the 1000 and 1000 springtails happily cleaning your tank for you

Those store bought water features are finicky and tend to not last long. I would not waste money on one of those if it were me. You will end up removing it after a few months and then have a hole in your decoration. Frustration will set in and then you will be building a new tank lol.