Confused DIY'er could use some vivarium help

[AbranV]

Good afternoon!

Long story, short.....I've been planning an enclosure for over a year now and I'm finally ready to build the thing. I've collected a plethora of materials during that time, but now I'm more confused than ever. So after reading articles, searching online, and hours of YouTube, I feel its best to ask here. If you all would be so kind to offers helping hand it would be appreciated.

#1 False bottom vs. Gravel
in this tank there will be a water feature, most likely a waterfall.
Is a false bottom also used as part of the water reservoir for the pond/waterfall?

Which is "better",for a vivarium? Gravel drainage w/separate water feature such as a bowl or separated tank?
or a full-on false bottom?

#2 Great Stuff vs. Polystyrene

Pros and Cons question here. I have a hot wire cutter, airbrushes, amongst other tools.
Is there an advantage to either method for the background?

#3 Backgrounds

This is more of a safety question.
I've heard that Great Stuff releases toxins long after application(weeks) Is there truth to this?
How long do I wait to cover the spray foam?

which is preferred method, covering background with coconut fiber, non sanded grout, or acrylic paint?

From what I've read, some sort of sealant is needed. Silicone or Drylok.

What is the preferred ORDER in construction? For example, foam then silicone, then fiber.

When using non sanded grout, does it need to be sealed?

With any method used for a background, how long do I need to wait to place my frogs in their new home?

#4 MISCELLANEOU

Has anyone heard of or used the "moss paint" for their enclosure? Its on Pintrest, basically a recipes using moss, beer, and sugar blended into a liquid then painted on whatever. After application you mist it daily and grow moss?

I'm more of a pond guy recently into frogs. In my ponds and aquariums I have clean up crews of snails, clams etc. Are there the same concept for vivariums? If so what? Isopods, snails etc



Thank you for your time and knowledge!

P.s. I'm typing this out from my phone, if any clarifications are needed, please don't be shy. I can't proof read it, so I hope it makes sense

[AbranV]

That was a bit more than I was planning on asking!

Thanks again for any help, my main concern is my frog's safety.

Its for two Pacific Chorus Frogs, BTW

[frogphibian]

Ok I don't have too much time so I'll answer other questions later but for the background look up lizard landscapes on YouTube. He has many different tutorials including backgrounds that you might find helpful


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Strider18]

Haha no worries about it being long Now as for your questions:

1. The false bottom is usually used for keeping the soil from getting to wet and rotting, and I would personally just use a false bottom not the gravel.

2. As for the backgrounds I would use spray foam as it can be easier to get the shape you want but it really just depends on what you want.

3. Everyone that I know that has used great stuff in their enclosures was perfectly fine with their animals, as for applying sealant, you need to wait about a week or until it is fully cured. I wouldn't use acrylic paint or grout personally as it doesn't look very natural to me, and for sealing yes it will need to be sealed, I know Deranged Chipmunk uses titebond III mixed with cocofiber or a similar substrate. Again I would probably wait a week or until it is fully dried.

4. I know that moss paint can be used even though I haven't used it myself, but you usually just leave it alone until it starts growing then you mist it. And yes their is cleanup crews such as in aquariums, you can use isopods such as wood lice or/and you could use springtails which your frog will snack on if hungry

Oh and I just saw that this is for pacific chorus frogs, one thing they do like is lots of water they swim like crazy in it

I hope this helps!

[deranged chipmunk]

Good afternoon!

Long story, short.....I've been planning an enclosure for over a year now and I'm finally ready to build the thing. I've collected a plethora of materials during that time, but now I'm more confused than ever. So after reading articles, searching online, and hours of YouTube, I feel its best to ask here. If you all would be so kind to offers helping hand it would be appreciated.

#1 False bottom vs. Gravel
in this tank there will be a water feature, most likely a waterfall.
Is a false bottom also used as part of the water reservoir for the pond/waterfall?

Which is "better",for a vivarium? Gravel drainage w/separate water feature such as a bowl or separated tank?
or a full-on false bottom?

#2 Great Stuff vs. Polystyrene

Pros and Cons question here. I have a hot wire cutter, airbrushes, amongst other tools.
Is there an advantage to either method for the background?

#3 Backgrounds

This is more of a safety question.
I've heard that Great Stuff releases toxins long after application(weeks) Is there truth to this?
How long do I wait to cover the spray foam?

which is preferred method, covering background with coconut fiber, non sanded grout, or acrylic paint?

From what I've read, some sort of sealant is needed. Silicone or Drylok.

What is the preferred ORDER in construction? For example, foam then silicone, then fiber.

When using non sanded grout, does it need to be sealed?

With any method used for a background, how long do I need to wait to place my frogs in their new home?

#4 MISCELLANEOU

Has anyone heard of or used the "moss paint" for their enclosure? Its on Pintrest, basically a recipes using moss, beer, and sugar blended into a liquid then painted on whatever. After application you mist it daily and grow moss?

I'm more of a pond guy recently into frogs. In my ponds and aquariums I have clean up crews of snails, clams etc. Are there the same concept for vivariums? If so what? Isopods, snails etc



Thank you for your time and knowledge!

P.s. I'm typing this out from my phone, if any clarifications are needed, please don't be shy. I can't proof read it, so I hope it makes sense

let me see if i can clarify a few things for you:

#1. it's not a matter of which is "better", because neither is. they both have their merits and both have their downsides. the question you need to ask is "which is better for THIS enclosure?" since you are building a tank for PCF's, then a false bottom is the better choice. PCF's will like a bit of water, and it is easier to build a water feature utilizing a false bottom. besides construction and design advantages, the false bottom will allow you to have a water reservoir larger than a traditional leca drainage layer, therefore allowing you to keep the water chemistry a lot more stable. you will also need room to stash a pump and nothing gives you that room better than a false bottom.

#2. 6 in one hand, half dozen in the other. no real advantages, it's just personal preference. some people prefer to make rock backgrounds with styro since it is already flat and makes it easier. some prefer to spray expanding foam on the wall and carve it in the tank. styro has the advantage of working outside the tank. spray foam makes you work in the tank, but it gives you instant perspective. like i said, it's all personal preference.

#3. hogwash!

it normally takes about 24 hours for expanding foam to cure. if layered on very heavily, it could take a few days. there is no exact timetable because applications vary. i will say this. practice patience, do not rush things. you will thank me for it in the long run, trust me on this. if you think it will cure in 1 day, give it 2.

background covering, again, a personal preference, but a lot also depends on the look you are trying to achieve. obviously, if you want a rocky background, then a background covered in cocofiber just won't cut it.

you do not need to seal expanding foam. once cure, it becomes inert. it can allow water to trickle through it once the outer skin is broken though.

if doing a foam background covered in silicone and cocofiber, then yes, that is not the preferred order, but the only way it possibly can be done. other background methods vary

no sanded grout doesn't necessarily need to be sealed, but it does help keep it looking nice and prevents erosion. even the finest little trickle can wreak havoc, erosion wise.

i always allow my tanks to grow for a MINIMUM of 30 days. i do daily water changes for a week, then weekly, then whatever i decide on, based on bio and natural element loads. the exception would be a concrete background. concrete drastically affects the pH of the water and everything in it to dangerous levels and a 6 week cure period is required before the tank is even close to being habitable.

#4. yeah, i have heard of it. even used a variation in a dry start aquatic planted tank. unless you LIKE the smell of rotting biological agents, you don't want to do this. a more effective, and less smelly way would be to get some moss mix from Folius you just make up a little moss slurry, and paint it on. no mess, and most importantly, no smell!!!

clean up crew: springtails (they can be temperate or tropical) and isopods (woodlice,pill bugs, roly pollies). they are quite a few species of these to choose from. each have different attributes. snails in an aquatic portion are definitely doable. i prefer malaysian trumpet snails personally, but pond snails can be used as well. the miniature ones that is. if you want to avoid over population of snails (amazing how fast they congest a viv), then nerites would be better.

[mpmistr]

clean up crew: springtails (they can be temperate or tropical) and isopods (woodlice,pill bugs, roly pollies). they are quite a few species of these to choose from. each have different attributes. snails in an aquatic portion are definitely doable. i prefer malaysian trumpet snails personally, but pond snails can be used as well. the miniature ones that is. if you want to avoid over population of snails (amazing how fast they congest a viv), then nerites would be better.

I'm not sure about pacific chorus frogs but I have been less than successful at keeping snails with frogs. I added pond snails and ramshorns to my ACF tank and they were all eaten in a matter of days. o_O

[AbranV]

AWESOME! This is just what I was looking for! Thanks everyone for the information.

I do have just a couple more questions if you don't mind.

Deranged Chipmunk, I read your post on building vivariums and your false bottom is what I've been leaning towards.
My question, starting from the bottom of the aquarium up, How does this sound as a start?

PVC
egg crate
Screen
Top soil
Coca husk
Leave litter and/or moss layer

Sound about right? Should I omit something? Or add something? Are my layers in the right order?



And finally, just for $hits and giggles. I was thinking of using the corrugated poster board as a canvas for the expanding foam so I can have a little more freedom with my creation, also it would allow me to pull it out and move to a bigger tank in time. Sound crazy?

Thanks again for everything. I plan on starting tomorrow, and I'll make sure to post my progress.

-A

[deranged chipmunk]

I'm not sure about pacific chorus frogs but I have been less than successful at keeping snails with frogs. I added pond snails and ramshorns to my ACF tank and they were all eaten in a matter of days. o_O

That's because acf's are carnivores and are constantly seeking food. For a terrestrial or tree frog, who are motion hunters, they don't pose much threat. They don't move fast enough. Their lack of speed is their greatest strength in this case lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[deranged chipmunk]

AWESOME! This is just what I was looking for! Thanks everyone for the information.

I do have just a couple more questions if you don't mind.

Deranged Chipmunk, I read your post on building vivariums and your false bottom is what I've been leaning towards.
My question, starting from the bottom of the aquarium up, How does this sound as a start?

PVC
egg crate
Screen
Top soil
Coca husk
Leave litter and/or moss layer

Sound about right? Should I omit something? Or add something? Are my layers in the right order?



And finally, just for $hits and giggles. I was thinking of using the corrugated poster board as a canvas for the expanding foam so I can have a little more freedom with my creation, also it would allow me to pull it out and move to a bigger tank in time. Sound crazy?

Thanks again for everything. I plan on starting tomorrow, and I'll make sure to post my progress.

-A

your order sounds about right. i'm not sure if you ere just generalizing or not, but i wouldn't use topsoil, it compacts way too quickly and you'll have a nasty mess on your hands.

i'm not a real big fan of the "removable background" plan. i have never seen one done well. and most people who ever ask about them, end up going another route. measurements have to be precise and planned out way ahead of time, then fitting in the sides so they match up and looks good is a royal pita. believe me, i tried one myself, EPIC FAIL!!! LOL but hey, maybe you are the person to show us all how to do it right. i would love that!! i say if you wanna give it a shot, go for it!!

[mpmistr]

Would cocofiber over peat moss be better? I myself am a little in the fence on how to get a good substrate for plants going that is also frog friendly.

[deranged chipmunk]

Well, I still think that for a beginner, you just can't beat ABG mix. But that is essentially a mix of peat moss and cocofiber with a bunch of other stuff tossed in for drainage. It works very well. And you can always supplement with fertilizers in your mister. I like the florin line of products myself.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela