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Thread: Emergency Pacman Care

  1. #1
    Har
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    Default Emergency Pacman Care

    Hi all, I am new to the forum and need some serious help with a froglet.
    I have several other pacmans and misc. frogs, and I have never encountered this before.

    A few weeks ago I picked up a new froglet from one of the pet stores. It was a bit lethargic at first and seemed to be "panting" heavily, but it is the tiniest pacman I have had and general research came up with it being fairly normally as long as it was eating and relatively active.
    It has been eating crickets with calcium since I got it, and is an excellent eater.
    I came home about 15 minutes ago after being out all day and the frog is leaning heavily to one side, possibly bloated (haven't tried to pick it up to see), but is still active.
    This is completely new and although it's still acting fine otherwise, and it happened so suddenly that I'm worried it might be cause for concern since I can't get it any help until Monday.
    Does anyone have any clue what this is?
    Fast responses are greatly appreciated.
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  3. #2
    Moderator LilyPad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emergency Pacman Care

    Are you feeding crickets that are appropriately sized? They should be no bigger in length than the space between his eyes. Judging by the lump sticking out of the right side, looks like possible impaction. Hopefully someone who knows more than me can chime in. Good luck.
    2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
    2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"

    0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
    0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"



  4. #3
    Har
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    Default Re: Emergency Pacman Care

    Yes, the crickets are always around 1/8", never too many at one time either. Thanks for the impaction suggestion, it seems like that might be it!

  5. #4
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emergency Pacman Care

    Please answer the questions below. As well as do you feel any big hard lumps in either of his sides? Which one? He doesnt look bloated or impacted, perhaps just big poop coming, but it is hard to judge sometimes by the pic. Im going to check in tomorrow if nobody else replies sooner.

    “Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”
    The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.


    1. Size of enclosure
    2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
    3. Humidity
    4. Temperature
    5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
    6. Materials used for substrate
    7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
    - How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
    8. Main food source
    9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
    10. Lighting
    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    12. When is the last time he/she ate
    13. Have you found poop lately
    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
    15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.
    16. How old is the frog
    17. How long have you owned him/her
    18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
    20. How often the frog is handled
    21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
    22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)


    by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  6. #5
    Har
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    Default Re: Emergency Pacman Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Lija View Post
    Please answer the questions below...
    It is slightly bloated, and the side it is leaning on does have a hard lump.

    1. 10 gallon tank
    2. Housed alone
    3. Usually between 65-75%
    4. 80º
    5. Dechlorinated water
    6. Eco-Earth coconut fiber
    7. One shallow water bowl
    The original tank from the pet store kept it with some artificial plants as well as Spanish moss.
    8. 1/8" crickets
    9. Light calcium dusting every other feeding (about 2 times per week)
    10. No direct lamplight
    11. Local temperature, adjusted with fan or heat pad.
    12. Ate last Tuesday
    13. Pooped last Monday
    14. --
    15. Behavior is still normal (some activity at night, mostly sitting during the day), leaning heavily to one slightly bloated side of body and keeps leaning even when active.
    16. Froglet, size is a little less than 2"
    17. 3 weeks
    18. Captive bred
    19. Crickets every 2-3 days
    20. Very rarely, only for checking up and cleaning tank
    21. Low traffic
    22. General upkeep everyday, (misting, poop removal, water replacement). Usually I replace the soil in all my tanks at the beginning of each month, so the soil in this frog's tank hasn't been replaced yet.


    Thanks!

  7. #6
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emergency Pacman Care

    Everything is correct, humidity a bit on a lower side, try to keep it around 75, no lower then 70.
    I suggest you do a warm water bath with a few drops of natural honey for him, water level no higher then frogs, keep him in there for about 20 min, you can very gently massage his sides, both of them, repeat for few days in a row. The side he is leaning towards is where his stomach is, but it doesnt look too bad.

    Is he eating from tongs? And aggressive eater in general? Try pieces of nightcrawlers, they are way better choice then crickets, and will definitely help with blockage.

    Edit - you also need to get multivitamin powder and use it once a week, and ca/vitd3 2xweek.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  8. #7
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emergency Pacman Care

    Lija gave you some good advice. Also, myself would bring up the temperature to 82F with a few degrees colder at night. Can get not dyed night crawlers at Walmart or a local bait shop. For a 2 in. frog; can cut them to that length until frog reaches 3 in.; then feed whole ones. Some more info on dusting in here: http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...schedules.html.

    Do you mix the coco substrate with dechlorinated tap? In regards to bloating; can you describe how it feels like and respond to gentle touch? Does is feels solid, jelly like, or fluid (moves like in waves)? If it pooped last Monday; frog should not be impacted 4 days afterwards. After doing a honey bath; a 20 min. "rinse" in 80F dechlorinated tap is recommended.

    One last thing is that a 10 gal. tank is large for any Pacman under 3.5 in. and could be a source of stress. Finally, recommend keep this frog away from others and not to share any husbandry equipment or food items with other frogs in your collection until it's clear of any possible issues. Good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  9. #8
    Har
    Guest

    Default Re: Emergency Pacman Care

    Quote Originally Posted by Lija View Post
    Everything is correct, humidity a bit on a lower side, try to keep it around 75, no lower then 70.
    I suggest you do a warm water bath with a few drops of natural honey for him, water level no higher then frogs, keep him in there for about 20 min, you can very gently massage his sides, both of them, repeat for few days in a row. The side he is leaning towards is where his stomach is, but it doesnt look too bad.

    Is he eating from tongs? And aggressive eater in general? Try pieces of nightcrawlers, they are way better choice then crickets, and will definitely help with blockage.

    Edit - you also need to get multivitamin powder and use it once a week, and ca/vitd3 2xweek.
    Thank you so much! The bath actually seemed to help a lot. He is no longer leaning and the hard lump on the side is gone, though no poop yet. He usually eats without tongs and does very well, but I think I will try and see if he will take from tongs now in case he is ingesting some of the substrate. I will definitely adjust the humidity and get the powder!


    Quote Originally Posted by Mentat View Post
    Lija gave you some good advice. Also, myself would bring up the temperature to 82F with a few degrees colder at night. Can get not dyed night crawlers at Walmart or a local bait shop. For a 2 in. frog; can cut them to that length until frog reaches 3 in.; then feed whole ones. Some more info on dusting in here: http://www.frogforum.net/food-feeder...schedules.html.

    Do you mix the coco substrate with dechlorinated tap? In regards to bloating; can you describe how it feels like and respond to gentle touch? Does is feels solid, jelly like, or fluid (moves like in waves)? If it pooped last Monday; frog should not be impacted 4 days afterwards. After doing a honey bath; a 20 min. "rinse" in 80F dechlorinated tap is recommended.

    One last thing is that a 10 gal. tank is large for any Pacman under 3.5 in. and could be a source of stress. Finally, recommend keep this frog away from others and not to share any husbandry equipment or food items with other frogs in your collection until it's clear of any possible issues. Good luck !
    Yes, I mix the substrate with the dechlorinated water. The lump is gone now, but it felt like a hard spot just underneath the skin. He usually shifted a bit when I touched it, but otherwise did not try to get away. I have just prepared a 5 gallon tank with fresh soil and water to move him to. Thanks for the advice!


    In the meantime, although he seems to be doing fine, does anyone have a recommendation on when to try to feed him again? Normally he would have eaten yesterday, and I am hesitant to feed him again today in case this issue returns.

  10. #9
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emergency Pacman Care

    You can continue feeding; a 2 in. Pacman can eat daily. You can keep that until eating response slows down (around 3-3.5 in.). Try the night crawlers, they are the best food for them .
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  11. #10
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emergency Pacman Care

    That is great! Carlos i think the question was when he should offer after that lump accident Har, if that was what you are asking, then you can start now, or as soon as wants to again and do pieces of nightcrawler for start. But i would wait feeding crickets for a day or so.
    Carlos offered you a good advise on feeding everyday, that is what you should do, they need tons of food while growing and variety at that too with nightcrawlers being a staple. Growing they will start refusing feeding everyday and pick a schedule that works for them. You will see. They wont get overweight if you feed them proper food.


    That lump should appear on his left side soon and then it will get out
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  12. #11
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Emergency Pacman Care

    I suggest having a fecal sample tested. When he does poop place the sample in a Ziploc bag with a cotton ball dampened with dechlorinated water and place it in the fridge. You'll need to get the sample to the vet for testing within a few hours. Worms can be detected up to a day, but organisms like protozoa need to be within hours.

    Best keep a close eye on him because I don't believe impaction is the culprit here. Leaning and Lethargy are not that common with impaction unless the frog has been impacted for some time. Leaning can also be a sign infection which can cause neurological disorders when the infection begins to attack the frog's internal systems.


  13. #12
    Har
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    Default Re: Emergency Pacman Care

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    I suggest having a fecal sample tested. When he does poop place the sample in a Ziploc bag with a cotton ball dampened with dechlorinated water and place it in the fridge. You'll need to get the sample to the vet for testing within a few hours. Worms can be detected up to a day, but organisms like protozoa need to be within hours.

    Best keep a close eye on him because I don't believe impaction is the culprit here. Leaning and Lethargy are not that common with impaction unless the frog has been impacted for some time. Leaning can also be a sign infection which can cause neurological disorders when the infection begins to attack the frog's internal systems.
    Thanks, I will definitely do this! Hopefully I can catch it in time.

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