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Thread: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

  1. #1

    Exclamation Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    Hey everyone, long time no see.

    Unfortunately, I have another sick frog. This time it's Treecko, one of my green and golden bell frogs (Litoria aurea).
    He's extremely skinny, weak, lethargic and isn't eating properly.
    In comparison to his brothers and sisters, his legs look like twigs; almost no substance to them, and his hipbones are visible.
    His colouring is also very dull- normally a brown-gold colour with patches of light green.

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    I've had some issues with food for the frogs; we've suddenly had a cold snap which meant it took much longer for the fruit flies to hatch than it normally would, so they were without food for quite a while (food supplies for amphibians/ reptiles are ridiculous in New Zealand; all we have on offer are intermittent supplies of mealworms or fruitflies, or crickets... if you're willing to part with $45 for 50 of them.) So since last year I've been making my own cultures, to great success.

    I saw him shedding the other day, but he's also been yawning occasionally.. but more than usual. I fed all the frogs last night , and while the others all piled in, Treecko didn't seemed interested, only catching three or four fruit flies after having not eaten for perhaps 10 days (due to food issues above; when i can i try to feed them every 2-3 days.)

    He lives with five other frogs of the same age and size (3cm svl, approximately 1 year old), in an Exo-Terra 10-gallon terrarium. I'm aware of the recommendations regarding the number of frogs per gallon, but they're so tiny and aren't cramped at all; so until I can afford a larger tank I'm sure this will do). Humidity tends to be at about 70-80%, with a temperature of about 20-23C.
    I feed them wingless fruitflies dusted in calcium powder+D3 every 2-3 days when supplies are good; on occasion they may go a little longer without food due to troubles with supply.
    Their substrate is sphagnum moss, and their water is de-chlorinated tap water which I change every 2-3 days- should probably do this more often due to the amount of frogs in the tank.

    I've soaked him in a honey/water mix for 20 mins to try give him a bit more energy to eat; I offered him a worm dusted in Repta-Boost but he didn't take it. I've also moved him to a hospital tank with plain soaked paper towel substrate, a water dish and a plastic plant.

    I've tried to do some research but I haven't come up with much; I only hope its not a parasitic or bacterial infection because there's next to nothing I can do to help him in that case

    Thanks,
    Gabby.

    *UPDATE* He shedded again, and his colouring has improved. He also took the worm I offered again. I'll continue to keep an eye on him and keep him separated
    Last edited by BlueKiwiOca; June 12th, 2014 at 07:26 PM. Reason: added photo

    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
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    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    You seem to be on a right track! Good job!
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  4. #3

    Default Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    Checked on Treecko tonight and he seems to have taken a turn for the worse... Did a poop but it was badly formed and smeared everywhere, saw some undigested fruit flies. His rear end was reddish, possibly bloody. And most scarily, his skin is very discoloured. I'll attach a photo of him a couple of days ago, and then tonight

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    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
    1 German Shepherd X- Badger

  5. #4

    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    Bumping this. Treecko died the night after I posted the last update, and now I have another frog who seems to be sick with the same thing. After Treecko died I cleaned out the terrarium thoroughly, and replaced all the sphagnum moss.

    Froakie has been very dull-coloured and lethargic as of a few days ago. He had a weak feeding response yesterday, and none today when I offered him fruit flies. I've now isolated him in a hospital tank. Help please?

    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
    1 German Shepherd X- Badger

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    100+ Post Member Jessalyn's Avatar
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    Default Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    I'm sorry, I don't know Golden Bells very well, however have you tried the unflavored pedialyte bath? There's directions on how to do it.


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    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    I"ll be back in this, have very very limited time now.

    Are they wc or cb? Have you quaranteened them properly? Please describe, can you also please answer all the questions to the "trouble in the enclosure questions?" Thank you
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  8. #7
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    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    Hi Gaby! Sorry for Treecko's death and the new sick one . Is there a local herp vet or lab that could conduct a fecal exam for you? Might as well answer the enclosure questions to see if we can narrow down issue. Thank you !

    “Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”

    The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

    1. Size of enclosure
    2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
    3. Humidity
    4. Temperature
    5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
    6. Materials used for substrate
    7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
    - How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
    8. Main food source
    9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
    10. Lighting
    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    12. When is the last time he/she ate
    13. Have you found poop lately
    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
    15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.
    16. How old is the frog
    17. How long have you owned him/her
    18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
    20. How often the frog is handled
    21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
    22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

    by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  9. #8
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    Gabby,

    Try to answer the questions (in post #7) as best as possible

    Sorry for the troubles you are having and very sorry you lost a frog

    I would separate each remaining frog.
    A frog this size should not be eating fruit flies. FF should NOT be a regular feeder.
    The ff are much too small ! Continue to feed the the dusted worms and small crickets.
    **The worms ---if they take them --- is a feeder that is easily digested for a sick frog.
    You are better off feeding them a few dusted crickets daily vs a lot of crickets all at once.
    The frog in photo # 3 is very thin

    Housing for frogs should be 1 frog per 10 gallons. "Cramped" could be causing the "skinny" !
    The small quarters are likely causing tremendous stress -----> setting yourself up for a spiral downward ... of issues. It's imperative they have a larger tank -- ie 40 gallons if they are to remain together ( or 2 -- 20 gallon )

    Get rid of the sphagnum moss--- as they can swallow it by accident.
    ( Use dampened paper towel for now ---dampened with properly prepared water - NOT distilled)
    Change it every day. Wash your hands ( or use disposable gloves) between each little hospital enclosure.

    As mentioned, if any of the frogs have diarrhea you will need to find a vet to do a fecal ( poop ) test to rule out the possibility of parasites. You might as well do only one test....since they have been housed together ---and if found to be positive---they will ALL have to be treated prior to be housed together in a MUCH larger enclosure.

    You need a solution for the food as it's imperative that availability never be interrupted.
    Do everything possible to become very proficient at and keep a few cricket and worm cultures!
    Or ....at the very least secure shipments of both from a supplier via the mail ? This sounds like a tough one for you , sorry.

    The extra shedding. A frog should be rinsed very well after a honey soak.
    Hydration will occur if you use properly prepared water for the frog's soaking dish and simply get him to stay in it with a loose fitting lid with air holes.

    If the 'extra' shedding occurred 1st--- has the frog been exposed to any kind of chemicals--- of any kind.
    What do you use to clean the tank? Let us know

    Please keep us posted
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    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
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    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    Gabby,
    How are things going?
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  11. #10

    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    Hi, I was at school so couldn't reply earlier. The frogs are so small I really don't think they could handle eating crickets even if I could get them- New Zealand is a terrible place to keep frogs from my experience, as I have issues getting food (pet shop only has mealworms and fruitflies occasionally, and to get feed from the supplier is prohibitively expensive- this is the only reason why I still feed fruit flies). The worms I've has to get from our garden, but I've sorted out the fruit fly supply issue.

    Also, there are no vets in Auckland that have experience in amphibian care, and a fecal (according to my local vet) will cost me $80+

    Treecko had always lagged behind in terms of appetite and growth, the others dont seem to be as skinny as he was. I got the frogs from a pet shop; I don't know if they were captive bred or wild caught, but either is a possibility.

    1. Size of enclosure- 10 gallon Exo-Terra Mini-Tall
    2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences- 5 frogs all approximately the same size- but all are smaller than 3cm SVL
    3. Humidity - 70-80%
    4. Temperature - Winter at the moment, so temperatures are sitting around 18-19C
    5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish - de-chlorinated tap water
    6. Materials used for substrate - Sphagnum moss
    7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials - large plastic water dish, one artificial (plastic) flower, one plastic leafy plant and one silk? leafy plant. One Exo-Terra food dish. Sphagnum moss on top of gravel for drainage.
    - How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv - cleaned in hot water with vinegar, then thoroughly rinsed in de-chlorinated tap water. Sphagnum moss was soaked in dechlorinated tap water, then squeezed of excess water.
    8. Main food source - fruit flies (see above for reasoning)
    9. Vitamins and calcium? - fruit flies dusted with calcium powder every 2-3 days
    10. Lighting - no lighting
    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure - a heater in my bedroom; I know ambient heat isn't enough to maintain a temperature in the terrarium, but I have to make do with what I can get here. When I'm home, I direct my incandescent desk lamp onto one side of the terrarium; this slowly raises the temperature by a bit (up to 20-21C)
    12. When is the last time he/she ate - approximately 5 days ago
    13. Have you found poop lately - Froakie did a small poop yesterday in the hospital enclosure.
    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) - Will attach later
    15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area. - Lethargic, reduced feeding response, sleeping a lot, dull colouration.
    16. How old is the frog - Approx 17 months old
    17. How long have you owned him/her - 16 months
    18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred - unknown; from a pet shop, but wild caught may be a possibility. I've had him since he was a tadpole.
    19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats; Wingless fruit flies, occasional worm, housefly and moth.
    20. How often the frog is handled - Only when necessary; cleaning tank etc
    21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area- Medium; on my (large) desk in my bedroom.
    22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) - Daily water change and poop removal. Deep clean of the terrarium when I have time, every 1-2 months

    Again, I am aware that there are things about their husbandry that are not ideal; if I could improve them, I would. If there's something I'm doing wrong, I'd appreciate it being pointed out.

    I can't separate all the other frogs as I don't have the resources or space to do so, but I will replace the moss with paper towelling.

    Thanks for your help

    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
    1 German Shepherd X- Badger

  12. #11

    Default Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

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    Froakie in the hospital tank

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    An indication of the size of the frogs

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    The regular tank

    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
    1 German Shepherd X- Badger

  13. #12
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    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    It is late here so I am just responding to get subscribed to the thread and to note one thing in your list that I would change.

    You are doing the proper amount of supplements for calcium. Does your calcium supplement have D3 added?

    Also you need to add in a multivitamin dusting of the food 1 time a week. I dust with Calcium+D3 3x (Monday, Wednesday, Friday) Multivitamin 1 time a week (Sunday).

    I just switched to Rapashys multivitamins. Through reading it seems like the Rapashy multivitamin uses a better delivery method for vitamin A. Repcals delivery method is now thought to not be as effective as the Repashy method for frogs.
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  14. #13

    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    Hi Paul, yes the calcium I use (Flukers is the only one available here) has D3 added
    I have looked around in the past for a multivitamin supplement, but to no avail (see problems with living at the bottom of the world >.<). I'll try looking again.

    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
    1 German Shepherd X- Badger

  15. #14

    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    bump! Froakie still alive (that makes one day longer than Treecko.) Still lethargic and dull coloured, perks up a little when I spray him with water. Still very sleepy, and I'm trying to keep him warm. (but not too hot)

    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
    1 German Shepherd X- Badger

  16. #15

    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    Okay, so I was taking some pictures of Froakie in the quarantine tank to see if the camera could pick up anything my eyes couldn't see.. lo and behold! The flash picked up some very small lighter green spots on his back, (will post when I can) that look very similar to the spots other frogs on this forum have developed when they have a bacterial infection. Although I may be too late in finding this, I've applied some Neosporin without painkiller to his back in the hopes that the antibiotic properties might help him. If I could do more, I would, but its 10pm at night so I wont be able to do anything else till tomorrow. Still keeping him in quarantine and changing towels and water everyday to try and minimize the bacterial load (if that is what it is) in his system

    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
    1 German Shepherd X- Badger

  17. #16

    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    Froakie died last night. It's pretty sad, considering he was my first frog. I'm trying to figure out what caused his and Treecko's death, but I'm coming up dry. Maybe the moss was contaminated or something. All I can do now is make sure the others don't get sick too.

    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
    1 German Shepherd X- Badger

  18. #17
    100+ Post Member Jessalyn's Avatar
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    Default Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    I'm sorry for your losses fingers crossed for the other little ones


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    Default Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    I am so sorry for your losses. Are the it here in the same tank the 2 sick frogs were in before you moved them to quarantine?


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    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    So sorry for your loss, this is really sad

    one thing comes to mind to me here. You need a bigger tank and to do fecal for remaining frogs, even if you do it for one frog, whatever it had everybody will have and gotta be treated everybody as well.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  21. #20

    Default Re: Frog Lethargic, Discoloured and not eating.

    Paul, no I've moved the remaining four frogs to another tank with paper towels, I'll have to gut the main tank and clean it thoroughly again. I'll be keeping them on paper towels from now on.
    Lija, I can't afford to get fecals done for the remaining frogs; at $80 each, it will cost me $320, which I don't have as I am a student, but thank you so much for your help and kind words. If I can save up some money, I'll try get some fecals done, but in the meantime do you have any other suggestions? Like keeping their environment extremely clean, etc?

    If dragons were real I'd totally be in on that...
    1 German Shepherd X- Badger

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