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Thread: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

  1. #1
    CHiNO
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    Angry Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    I would like to write about my experience with Mike Matson (Mike’sPhat Frogs). On the morning of Wednesday May 7th, 2014 I placed anorder for two albino woodhouse toads, and one samurai blue cranwelli. Mike promptlyshipped on Thursday May 8th, 2014 and I received the package in themorning of Friday May 9th, 2014. I took them home and immediatelymoved them individually into larger (4”-5”) Dixie cups with plastic plants forthem to hide under. Mind you the toads were only about the size of a small cricket;these enclosures were quite large for them. I came home the next day to findone of the toads sprawled out dead, I moved the dead one into the sauce cupthat mike provided in case he would want me to ship it back. I contacted Mike, heasks for proof and I send it to him. He then moves on to accuse me of keepingthe toad in the original container that he shipped with, and blames the deathon me. Mike’s argument was that he kept lots of frogs/toads and none of themdie, so it must be my fault. I bought two toads, both kept in similar conditionsand one ups and dies. I just wanted Mike to right the situation, he pretty muchtold me to pay for another one. I have lots of experience raising baby frogsall the way into healthy large adult frogs. Mike not only was unprofessional,he even called me a moron. It was obvious to me I could not come to an agreementwith him…as he was not professional and rude. I filed for a claim on Paypal forthe dead toad. Mike messages me and tells me Paypal will side with him. I lateron called Paypal to see why they closed the claim, they stated that they do notdeal with disputes on livestock, no wonder he was so smug. This was the worstvendor I have ever dealt with and I will never ever deal with him again. Also http://www.sandfiredragonranch.com/sells the same albino toads for only $15 dollars each. I gave Mike plenty ofchances to rectify the situation, but he resorted to name calling and immature tactics. Enjoy my $35 Mike, I hope it makes youRICH!

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  3. #2
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    Hello CHINO! Understand you are not a happy camper with this deal; but the fact is most live animal sellers only provide a live arrival warranty. Unless Mike offered you a different warranty, your frogs arrived alive and that is the end of it.

    I'm not saying the frog died from being placed in a small container; but strongly recommend you move the survivor to a larger enclosure where you can accurately monitor it's temperature and humidity parameters. Sorry for your loss !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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    100+ Post Member lindsayshocking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    I don't know. Honestly, if the toad dies within 24 hours that seems suspicious to me. I'm surprised he wouldn't offer to refund you the money or send another toad. That's what I would have done. Kind of unprofessional for him to call you names, as well. I will definitely keep this in mind next time I go frog shopping. I am sorry to hear about your experience :/

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    Chino- definitely good to know when going shopping in the future. Thanks for the heads up... Now following thread.

    I'll vouch for Chino knowing how to care for fogs. I've purchased quite a few frogs, juvenile and adult, that were all in great health and eating well. I've seen first hand and can tell you that his animals are well kept.

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    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    Sorry for your loss, i dealt with Mike, got 2 frogs from him and can tell you he was very professional and caring. In my experience if you want proper customer service you gotta behave yourself. Im not saying that was the case here, but given situation emotions might have run wild.

    At any rate most sellers have live arrival guarantee. Meaning they will arrive alive and healthy. If it is not the case you need to contact him within 2 hours ( +/-) with a proof they are dead or smth is wrong, you provide pic, you never ship dead/injured frogs back.

    A lot of things might happen in 24 hours, even kept in ideal conditions, some just cant adapt well to stressful situations and that is not sellers fault, those are the risks of buying baby frogs/toads.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  8. #6
    Helios
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    This may not be the most helpful suggestion, and I certainly understand your frustration. Dealing with shipping animals always makes me a tad nervous and amphibians can be so delicate in responding to their environments. I always try to garner every last detail about how they're being kept where I'm buying from in order to recreate those exact conditions during the quarantine period.
    Just throwing that out as a little aside in the topic.

  9. #7
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


  10. #8
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


  11. #9
    100+ Post Member Snappi13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    Quote Originally Posted by irThumper View Post
    Sorry for your loss but thanks for sharing so no one else makes that mistake.


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    Stephanie

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  13. #10
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    It's extremely important that prospective purchasers educate themselves about diseases like this. And it is the responsibility of breeders and sellers to be accountable when a problem is discovered. Covering such things up only hurts the frogs, the people who love them, and the amphibian industry as a whole.
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


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    Moderator LilyPad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    Oh man, Lisa, I haven't been in much to catch up. That is horrible! I will keep the rest of your frogs in my thoughts and cross my fingers that it didn't spread at all. No good
    2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
    2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"

    0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
    0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"



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    100+ Post Member Snappi13's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    Quote Originally Posted by irThumper View Post
    It's extremely important that prospective purchasers educate themselves about diseases like this. And it is the responsibility of breeders and sellers to be accountable when a problem is discovered. Covering such things up only hurts the frogs, the people who love them, and the amphibian industry as a whole.
    Very well said. You are so right I just wish the rest of the breeders out there would take more precaution and put a little more love in to it. If all the breeders and sellers out there would put even half the love in, we wouldn't be in this pickle. I must say I've learned so much from you Lisa through all your posts and all the frog forum froggers as well. My frogs live happier, healthier lives now because of all of this. I'm always looking for ways to better my frogs well being and there housing and caring for them too.


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    Stephanie

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  18. #13
    Frogger00
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    I know you are upset, and I don't know the whole story, but there is many other things to blame other than the breeder. Maybe your frogs came in contact with the disease while being shipped, or the breeder didn't even know that his frogs had caught the terrible disease. Don't get me wrong, it's great that you are sharing your experience, but please take into account these other possibilities. I'm sorry you've had such bad luck with a few of your frogs, I hope the others are doing well.


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    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    This is no snap judgement, believe me. The veterinarians confirmed that the frogs would have been infected before coming to me. If you want to know the WHOLE story, including the threats made against me by Mike for trying to notify people about the Chytrid (and that they should test/treat their frogs to be on the safe side) then you can PM me and I will fill you in. I have been trying to piece together some very disturbing puzzle pieces, including the fact that frogs from the same breeder were dying at our local Petco-- they weren't dying from coccidiosis, after seeing it first hand I am 99% sure it was Chytrid. I also hear constantly about people's Petco frogs getting sick and up and dying... there has to be a common denominator, other than Petco just sucks at amphibian care. On Facebook was also a little girl who purchased WTFs from this same breeder (not Mike, the supplier in my case) more than once. The last time she got them directly from him at an expo... all of them got sick and died in short order. These Petco (etc) frog deaths all need to be investigated, they cannot simply be brushed off as the fault of the store or of the owners. Someone needs to be accountable. Mike even tried to say the fault was mine because he said he knew I "never quarantined any of my frogs." Anyone who's been following me on here knows THAT sure as shoot isn't true! He said they had to have caught it from one of my other frogs... I told him if that was true then we really had a big problem, as ALL my frogs (except one) came from the same breeder! My only non-Sandfire frog is Martha, and she came to me as an adult from a different Petco (35 miles away) and a different supplier. Also, I document EVERYTHING in both photos and video. Other than having a myriad of internal parasites they have been treated for all of my other guys have been healthy and living with me since Oct, Dec & Jan... Pole Bean came to me already skinny and sick, and Butter Bean was dead within 29 days with no obvious outward signs until just before he died.

    People need to stop sticking their heads in the sand and brushing domestic frog deaths under the rug, they are not doing the herp industry a bit of good by doing so. I am not interested in replacement frogs... I would refuse them at this point rather than risk going through this again! And even though we are out a substantial amount of money I am not asking for a refund, I am asking for accountability, not threats and redirection away from the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frogger00 View Post
    I know you are upset, and I don't know the whole story, but there is many other things to blame other than the breeder. Maybe your frogs came in contact with the disease while being shipped, or the breeder didn't even know that his frogs had caught the terrible disease. Don't get me wrong, it's great that you are sharing your experience, but please take into account these other possibilities. I'm sorry you've had such bad luck with a few of your frogs, I hope the others are doing well.


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    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


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  21. #15
    100+ Post Member Cliygh and Mia 2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    Honestly, I get kind of a vibe of Mike's, because he kind of feels like the McDonalds of the breeder's world. You see adds for them all the time, and then stuff like this happens...

    http://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en/your_...mcnuggets.html
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCqKl4Q3hW4
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_slime
    http://grist.org/list/mcdonalds-mcre...e-site-advice/
    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/201...dvice-website/

  22. #16
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    Xavier, McDonalds never threatened to come to someone's house and F-them up. Go inquire at Faunaclassifieds.com as to why Mike's been banned from there.
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    I'm very sorry for your loss, but thank you for sharing it.

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  25. #18
    Frogger00
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    Quote Originally Posted by irThumper View Post
    Xavier, McDonalds never threatened to come to someone's house and F-them up. Go inquire at Faunaclassifieds.com as to why Mike's been banned from there.
    Wow. That is so unprofessional! Hope you and your frogs are doing okay.


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  27. #19
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    I'm not doing ok, I've come down with some respiratory virus or something and feel like ****, just when I need all my strength for this The rest of the frogs... I don't know yet. My vets recommended I NOT use the aerosol of Lamasil (have to trust them on this one Crunchy, just can't afford to take any more chances) because the other ingredients will not gas off completely and can still absorb into the frogs systems, causing potential problems. They are working on mixing me up a bath of Itraconazole (sp?) that is unadulterated with other potentially harmful ingredients, it's not been easy to mix and dose, however, and they want to make absolutely sure that the frogs will receive the proper dose.

    I just messaged this to Mike... "The snowflake is also dead. Will you please let me know who sent/boxed/shipped these frogs you sold me?"
    Lets see what response that gets.
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


  28. #20
    100+ Post Member irThumper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Buyer Beware of Mike's Phat Frogs

    Fail!
    Mom to these fine frogs!
    4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
    2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert


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