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Thread: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

  1. #1
    Geo
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    Default OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    OMG!!!!!!!!, woke up this morning and when I went to put some FF in the habitat for the mantellas a tiny froglet came out of the moss to chase a fly! It is soooooo small. I have finally succeeded in breding my M. Betsileo! Haven't seen any others yet. So exciting.

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    Moderator deranged chipmunk's Avatar
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    Default OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Awesome news George!! Congrats!!!
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
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  6. #3
    Geo
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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!


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    Moderator deranged chipmunk's Avatar
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    Default OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Hello there and welcome to the world little one!!!
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  9. #5
    Geo
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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Thx Bill! Now I am on the visual hunt for whether there are any more in the habitat but it is large and covered with plants and a million places they could be easily hiding out. ugh.

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    Moderator deranged chipmunk's Avatar
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    Default OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Oh I know that feeling too well! Lol that is really awesome though George! I hope you find more in there. :-)
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

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    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Congratulations George!
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  12. #8

    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    WELL DONE MATE!!!

    Incredibly happy for you, we can compare notes eh?

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    Default OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Congrats! What an adorable little one!
    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203589094112277&id=1363241107&set =a.1434844115446.2055312.1363241107&source=11&ref= bookmark

  14. #10
    Geo
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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Thx everyone. I feel like I should have a cigar or something lol (don't smoke so maybe I will have some cold cider instead). Anyhooooo, keeping due diligence in front of the habitat at the moment to see if I can sight any others. A suggestion to anyone doing a large setup for the first time - Arrange it so that you can walk around the entire habitat should you need to for whatever reason. If you got the space use it. My Mantella habitat is in the mancave on a custom built table up against the wall. Impossible to move now so the entire back of the habitat is out of visual range.

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    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Geo View Post
    ...A suggestion to anyone doing a large setup for the first time - Arrange it so that you can walk around the entire habitat should you need to for whatever reason...
    Agree 100%; large heavy set-ups should be reachable from all sides. I know of a couple huge aquariums whose owners had to either empty them or demolish a back wall when things went wrong .
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    This is so terrific !
    How exciting !

    Congratulations....... Geo.
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
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    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
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    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
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  17. #13
    Moderator deranged chipmunk's Avatar
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    Default OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Quote Originally Posted by Geo View Post
    Thx everyone. I feel like I should have a cigar or something lol (don't smoke so maybe I will have some cold cider instead). Anyhooooo, keeping due diligence in front of the habitat at the moment to see if I can sight any others. A suggestion to anyone doing a large setup for the first time - Arrange it so that you can walk around the entire habitat should you need to for whatever reason. If you got the space use it. My Mantella habitat is in the mancave on a custom built table up against the wall. Impossible to move now so the entire back of the habitat is out of visual range.
    That is why I always sound like a broken record, plan, plan, plan, test, test, test. If you can't do something when the tank is empty, you sure as heck can't do it while it is complete.

    My next build has been in the planning stages for over a year, and I'm still not sure I have everything worked out lol
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  18. #14
    Geo
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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Well, I spent the entire evening trying to relocate as much as I could so I would be able to expose the back of the habitat. Eventually I was able to mount a light back there and sure enough it flushed out some tadpoles! I saw a lot of activity but I can't say how many exactly but I can confirm at the very least that there were 5 very healthy and active tadpoles.

    I designed the habitat in such a way originally in that it is basically an island with a significant landmass above and is surrounded by water below or what I have come to call the lagoon. The landmass started off as a large / wide bowl shape structure that I made from thin elongated slabs of slate. I placed them such that they created a bowl/crater in which was placed peat moss, soil, bark, moss, plants, rocks, sticks, plants and so on. The land mass touches all the sides of the tank except for one small corner in the front in which I have access to a small sponge filter. Besides controlling minuscule debris it also contributes to the essential microbiology of the tank water.

    The lagoon is a bit different then what a lot of folks do in their habitats. It has its own life-system going on. In the lagoon is a borneo which is a small type of catfish that was intended to be a janitor of sorts and he has been doing his job very well. He scavenges for his meals but is non-threatening to the tadpoles. Actually I saw two tadpoles eating right next to him and he didn't care at all. There is also a healthy population of dwarf shrimp living in the lagoon as well as "water fleas", brine shrimp and so forth.

    When the tadpoles moved to the front of the tank the first thing I noticed was that they were burrowing through the lagoon's bottom where there is an inche layer of crushed oak leaves, twigs, gravel and so on - basically what you find on the bottom of a pond. I should mention that the lagoon is 5 inches deep. These tadpoles are swimming around like crazy and very active in the bottom debris. This seems to go against a lot of what I read about not having deep water, keeping it pure and so on. My philosophy, as some of you know already, is to emulate nature and that is what I did here. The images I have included show the tadpoles nibbling on micro-organisms found on a twig in the water. Previously they were snacking on an old baby meal worm that had fallen into the lagoon that the dwarf shrimp had started to devour. It seems that they are also snacking on a mixture I make of fish flakes, algae sticks, dried bloodworms and a few other stuff.

    I apologize for the quality of the images - bad lighting, me sooooo tired, tadpoles moving around quickly, water has natural tannin coloration. Hope to get something better for you all.






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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Does your "Borneo Catfish" looks like this Pseudogastromyzon myersi? If so, it is known as Myers Hillstream Loach. Thanks for the pics; even my old eyes can see the tads. Looks like you will have lots more froglets soon .
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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    Default OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Very cool George. I'm very happy to see someone else realizing that having water in the tank is not only not a detriment, but a positive thing.

    I love your approach to frogging, mimic the environment. It's what we all strive for and you nailed it :-)
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Awesome! Is there a build log for the tank you are talking about. Would love to seed some pictures of it!

  22. #18
    Geo
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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Carlos, that is indeed the fish in question. I have been calling them Borneos for quite a while now and that is all that he is in my head lol. My experience is that they make for good general cleaners without being dangerous / intrusive as to what is going on in the tank. The dwarf shrimp also serve that purpose as well. Actually the shrimp are better cleaners and are very easy to care for. Add them to the water and that is more or less it. This morning the Borneo was sitting right beside the tadpoles. I wonder if it thinks that they are borneos too due to the similar shape they have right at the moment.

    Bill, I agree - too many people seem to have some hesitation using water in their setups like some of us do. As you and I have said before, if its out in Nature then it must be ok, serves a purpose and can only be helpful inside a habitat setup. To me the three important aspects of water in the setup is keeping it clean (but not sterile, this is an important aspect of taking the natural approach contrary to the sterile approach) but allowing for microbiology to flourish, have a source of naturally occurring tannins in the water (bog wood, crushed leaves, etc) and to allow the water to be present in multiple locations if possible. I use a sponge filter which is good because they can be small and easy to setup inside the tank, they allow for microorganisms to occupy the sponge which helps with water quality. This kind of water approach only works if you don't "sterilize" the environment.

    Paul, unfortunately I never kept a visual log as I initially saw this as a private hobby. There are photos in my albums and I may include more if people want to see them and I can get some decent internal pics. Now I wish I did record more but hey.... Since I joined this forum I have enjoyed sharing and exchanging with my fellow froggers and can only suggest to the new folks to make an attempt to record what they are doing. I am very willing to share photos and such as it presently stands and answer questions but there are folks here more knowledgeable them me who may explain things better. I read, learn and try to figure things out for myself and when I think I have something useful to pass along I do. My next stage of development for the habitat is regarding the plant life present inside as well as the "bug culture" that I am trying to stabilize inside as well. Trying to make it all as au naturalle as possible without causing any concerns for the little critters living in there.

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  24. #19
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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    Thanks George, I have been toying with an idea for using slate rocks in my Dart Terrarium that is looming in the near future. Still not 100% sure what I am going to do, but I love the idea of having a fully functional eco system in the terrarium.

  25. #20
    Geo
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    Default Re: OMG! I have a M. Betsileo froglet!

    I say go for it Paul. Slate I have found works great for me so far (there are so many ways to approach this as is evident by the different methods used by the many caretakers here). I harvested my slate along the shoreline here, "cooked" it in the oven to sterilize it. I picked pieces that were long, wide and thin that allowed for me to tweak the shape of the "island" a fair bit. Its a natural substance so moss will stick to it, it will eventually discolor in a way that looks natural for whatever you arranged.

    When I set up the bowl/crater shape of the island I ensured that there was small caves and holes that would allow for any water life to be able to travel to and fro underneath (which apparently the tadpoles are now doing). I ensured that the edges of the island on top always reached the side of the tank (except for the opening where the sponge filter is). I layered the island from the bottom up with sea gravel, pebbles, crushed bark, moss, broken twigs, more gravel then moss and on top there are rocks, logs, plants, moss and so on.

    I ensured that each aspect of the tank has natural biology relevant to it. IE red wigglers and various small bugs in the island, dwarf shrimp, brine shrimp, miniature catfish, etc in the water. Its working for me is all I can say. I enjoy discovering new things as something kick starts inside the tank (ie last week I discovered that there are tiny snails that come out at night only and they to nibble on the plants, leave trails in the condensation on the tank walls, etc).

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