Vivarium backround help

[Andrew exotics]

Hello i will be making a vivarium for a thumbnail dart frog or a reed frog.It will be a 5 gallon tank and i was deciding if i should do a foam and silicone backround,or a kitty litter clay backround?What will be easier and what would look much nicer?Thanks for your help

[DigitalPunk]

I personally think they all look nice. The kitty litter/clay backgrounds seem a bit more involved with keeping it moist so it doesn't crack as the months go buy. I haven't heard of s solid silicone background unless your plan is just to smear it all over the back wall and stick some stuff to it.

The foam back ground is easy to do and can be covered with either Silicon with Coco fiber/peat moss pressed into the silicone while it is drying or Titebond III wood glue (it is waterproof) and then press the same into it. There is a thread on here from Deranged Chipmunk on how to do the Titebond III method, but the nuts and bolts of it is you mix either the coco fiber or Coco fiber+peat moss into the glue and make it the same consistency of oatmeal. Then spread it on the foam using some sort of small brush. Then press you desired topper into the wet Titebond.

The Spray Foam will take roughly 24 hours to fully cure. Silicone onto of that takes 24 - 48 hours to fully cure and the Titebond III takes anywhere from 3 days to 7 days to fully cure.

Things to note:

If you have bare spots (and everyone does after one coat) you can not do a 2nd coat of silicone (it will not stick to itself). You CAN do multiple coats of the Titebond. I have also heard that the Titebond method holds up better over time than the Silicone method.


It is really all up to you and what look you are going for. I am currently building a tank using Spray Foam and Titebond III. I have a thread going on the forums to document the build.

[Andrew exotics]

Thanks but which one do you think will be easier for someone whos never done a backround.Do you have any experience with the clay method?Whitch one will be less of a hastle?

[DigitalPunk]

Thanks but which one do you think will be easier for someone whos never done a backround.Do you have any experience with the clay method?Whitch one will be less of a hastle?

This build is my first try at a back ground. I would say the Foam method is very easy to go. Look at some pictures of others builds and guides. Watch some youtube videos and you will be ready to give it a shot. The Clay method seems a bit more advanced to me...

[deranged chipmunk]

If you have never done a background, I recommend against doing clay. And yes, it need to be kept constantly moist, not wet, but moist, otherwise it will crack and fall apart.

Spray foam and titebond will be your best bet. Just remember the most important thing is patience patience patience!! Lol

[DigitalPunk]

If you have never done a background, I recommend against doing clay. And yes, it need to be kept constantly moist, not wet, but moist, otherwise it will crack and fall apart.

Spray foam and titebond will be your best bet. Just remember the most important thing is patience patience patience!! Lol

That is also the hardest part!

[deranged chipmunk]

No kidding!! But if you look at it this way, it makes it easier. This is a permanent home for your animals. You wouldn't want a house that is being built for you rushed and then have it fall apart later, so why do it to the frogs?

[DigitalPunk]

Absolutely.

My tank is curing and has been for the last 3 days. I am going to let it sit until tomorrow then start dusting it off and see how much i need to patch in still.

[Andrew exotics]

Does the titebond stick better than silicone?Can you kinda tell me how to use the titebond if thats not to much to ask.Also do you guys have any suggestions to make my viv look really nice?thanks!!!

[deranged chipmunk]

Does the titebond stick better than silicone?Can you kinda tell me how to use the titebond if thats not to much to ask.Also do you guys have any suggestions to make my viv look really nice?thanks!!!

The adhesion is about the same. But silicone will peel off of great stuff if water gets under it. Neither one can combat erosion, so if there is running water, expect to treat that area with some sort of epoxy, otherwise the running water WILL remove the coco fiber, regardless if you are using silicone or glue.

My mantella thread has details on using titebond, so I won't repeat it here, sorry.

Suggestion to make it nicer? No, but I can offer advice from experience. First, plan plan plan. Second, and this is especially true if working with water, test test test, then when you think everything is right, test some more. Third, practice patience. Vivariums are not built over night. This is not an instant gratification thing. Expect it to take a long time. And lastly, expect failure. I don't say this to sound mean, but if you expect some degree of failure on your first attempt, you won't get discouraged. Nobody is perfect and things rarely ever go as planned, but things normally work out.

[Andrew exotics]

What about tree fern panels how do those work?Can i cut them down to size to fit my tank?Will they actually grow mosses and such?Are those a good alternative?

[flybyferns]

Just a thought

Something in particular that comes to mind when building for thumbnails.
They will manage to get themselves into every / any little crack or opening.
Be careful....as you don't want them to get stuck, or in there for days and days.

I lost one for days...only to find him in a little hole in a pc of wood that was on the ground. I had to pull the entire enclosure apart to find him
I left him there , but eventually made the opening in the wood a little larger. And of course...now know where to find the rascal.

OMI , I would keep the background a simple as possible without a water feature. I does not have to be completely covered.
For instance, you could paint the outside of the back glass. ( This could be done w/ different 'woodland' colors blended, streaks to resemble wood grain)
Then, on the inside they would be quite happy with a pc of wood or cork bark leaning against the back glass. Lean it against a small swatch of coco fiber flat ( all living things ---available in small rolls). Let a nice vine grow up the wood. Put some tropical moss on top of the cocoa fiber. Keep it wet. Eventually they will make little sleeping /hiding areas behind the cocoa fiber and moss. The right vines will grow soooooo long you can suspend them across the ceiling of the enclosure to create a vine. I use heavy fishing line for the vines. You can string film canister through the line at various tilts. ie My imitators breed in this kind of a vine across the ceiling in the enclosure. They lay their eggs in the canisters that are more horizontally positioned; then move their tads to canisters that are on the substrate.

Such as: ( some must have's )
Monstera siltepecana
Epipremnum Cebu Blue
Caladium humboldtii 'Mini White'
Piper sylvaticum

some other no-fail plants:

great for the floor:
Ficus sp. 'Lance Leaf'

taller great plant- easy to grow
Calathea vitatta

The BEST moss !
http://www.blackjungleterrariumsuppl...oss_p_759.html

Have fun !

[Andrew exotics]

Thanks alot Lynn!that helped alot but i have a few questions about the plants/moss.Whitch of those plants if any grow like crazy throughout the cage and kinda give it that rainforest look.Do you have any experience with growing that moss.Do you have any pictures of your vivariums?

[flybyferns]

Hi Andrew,
Sorry...... I really meant to get back to this sooner.
Busy few days.....

Most of the time .....I realize ....the more I learn ...the less I know
But....I have lots of experience growing moss.( a personal mission)
I was determined to be able to grow moss in my PDF tanks.
My favorite moss is from Black Jungle.
Live Tropical Moss
It's a little pricey, but well worth it. I don't what know they do to it? But it's great. It goes further than you might expect.

It does take a little practice...needs lots of direct/ misting/ moisture and light.
If you should try BJ's ; pull it apart gently when placing it....woody parts touching the object or substrate. Don't cut it.
You will be able to tell the top from the bottom. I have this moss growing on glass surfaces!

recent FF thread: see post #10

http://www.frogforum.net/beginner-di...ants-fake.html

Moss tip ---- for growing moss on glass along the perimeter of the enclosure... (were the substrate meets the glass)

I use this product made by "quickie" They are cheap and can not scratch the glass.
Homepro Shower Squeegee by Quickie Manufacturing - Essential Hardware

I trim them so they are not as wide. I actually cut the scraper in half at handle.
Attachment 64659

I have one for each enclosure ( never share these between enclosures ) If you mist the interior glass with distilled water...then scrape all the gunk and poop down to the substrate....the moss will grow on what collects. It makes little piles of 'compost'/ cleans the glass nicely/ and will make great snacks for the springtails and isopods. Yummy !

Answer to your "albums" question--here you go:
http://www.frogforum.net/members/flybyferns-albums.html

The plants that will grow well are the suggestions mentioned - here- in post #12
I'm sure other members have other favorites, as there are plenty of 'green thumbs' here on FF.

Best,Lynn