Heating (up) a small exo terra for my new pacman

[Manwell]

I have a young (6/7 months) albino and he's in a 30 x 30 x 30 exo terra, I originally put my heat mat at the back (wall) behind the exo terra backing but it wasn't generating much heat so I've moved it to the bottom (I stuck it to the underside) but it's still only ready 19/20 degrees c but it does feel warmed at least the substrate does.

My heat mat's only 7w could this be why it's not getting hot enough?

Thank you

[Manwell]

this is my little man, he's called Manwell

[Bedore]

Just in case others read this and see 30x30x30 and think holy ****, I believe he is referring to a 30cm enclosure which is 12x12x12" for us yanks. Anyhow let's begin.

You will need to get your temperatures under control. Day time temps need to be 82-85 and night time temps 76-78. Humidity should be 70-80% as well (you didn't mention current humidity). You need to move the heat pad to the side of the tank. These frogs like to burrow to cool down and regulate temperatures. If they are looking to cool down and burrow into the substrate, they will end up getting too hot with the heat pad on the bottom. I put mine on the left side of my Exo-Terra enclosure. The heatpad alone is not enough for my enclosure (and does not appear to be enough for yours) so I added a ceramic heat emitter. It's mounted above the enclosure and I allowed about 1" of space or so between the top of the enclosure and fixture. I also covered most of the top with aluminum foil as this helps to hold in heat and humidity. I cut a square out around where the heat emitter sits. I also have the heat emitter controlled by a thermostat and if you end up adding one I'd recommend you hook it into a thermostat as well.

Your frog looks young. Maybe it's just the photo but it looks younger than 7 months, but hard to tell. If your frog is still a young/smaller frog I would recommend you put your frog in a smaller critter keeper. Add some substrate and a small water bowl and put it inside the exo-terra enclosure so you can still regulate temps/humidity. Once your frog has grown large enough (they grow quick) you can release your frog into the full enclosure. If it's just the photo that is making it look small, then disregard.


Hope this helps you out.

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF! First thing is to read this: Frog Forum - Pacman and Horned Frogs - Ceratophrys - Care and Breeding. Second is to get either a larger heat mat (as large as you can fit on side) or a small dome with dimmer and either a red bulb or ceramic infrared heat emitter. Pacman frogs kept in low temps for a period of time will develop permanent health issues. For a baby your target temperature should be 28C (82F). Agree with Bedore in that frog looks like a baby. Think if 7 month's old could be stunted. Good luck !

[Hypnotic]

The way I heated all my 30x30x30 enclosures was to put one heatmat on the side and one on the back, the back one being on 24/7 for nighttime temperatures and the side one being on 12 hours a day during my light cycle, it always gave me the temperatures of 27+ to 27.8 during the day and 24-25 at night. Don't attach the heatmat to the bottom, as Bedore stated, they are burrowers and dig to cooldown.
Also make sure the temperature probe is attached a few cm's above the substrate, that is where the frog lives and attaching it to the top might give you different temperatures.

[Manwell]

He's now in a small Monkfield terrarium with a fitted slot underneath for the heat mat, the heat mat itself only covers half the enclosure my probe and thermometer probe are just above the substrate and it's slowly climbed up to 31.6 - at last!!

[Bedore]

Is the heat mat on the side of the enclosure or underneath? It needs to be on the side and not underneath. Glad you got the temps where you need them.

[Manwell]

It's underneath, the terrarium is purpose built and has a built in slot for the heat mat, it only takes up half the floor, I could not raise temperatures any other way

[Bedore]

It's underneath, the terrarium is purpose built and has a built in slot for the heat mat, it only takes up half the floor, I could not raise temperatures any other way

These frogs burrow to cool down and regulate temperatures. If you have the heat mat on the bottom they could burrow down into it right to the glass and burn themselves (the heat mats do run hot). You should move it to the side of the tank and if you cannot regulate temperatures correctly with the heat pad there then you should consider adding a ceramic heat emitter and a thermostat.

My Exo-Terra enclosure also has accommodations for a heat mat to be placed underneath but it's a bad idea. I placed my heat mat on the side and added a ceramic heat emitter and a thermostat. No issues with temps at all.

[Manwell]

He won't burn my heat mat is already attached to a thermostat which shuts the heat mat off at 30 degrees, most people here in the UK heat and successfully maintain pacmen in this way

[Bedore]

He won't burn my heat mat is already attached to a thermostat which shuts the heat mat off at 30 degrees, most people here in the UK heat and successfully maintain pacmen in this way

Even if it's attached to a thermostat the probe has been placed above the substrate. So the heat mat will get very, very hot to regulate temperatures at the probe since the probe is above the substrate and not near the heat mat. Once the frog decides to burrow he will burrow onto the hot glass and could burn himself. This is not really the correct way to heat a pacman enclosure and I doubt many on this forum will disagree with me but if this is the setup you want to run then so be it. I hate to come off as being preachy about pacman care, but this is one area where there is very little debate on whether its OK or not. But as I said, I don't want to sound too preachy so I just hope it works out ok.

[Manwell]

this is from another thread (on this forum) "Hi Im in the UK too , heat mat at bottom is fine. I have been doing this over a year . As long as you use thermo to keep temps set You are fine. On another UK forum there are peeps saying They cannot get temps with heat mat on side, and frogs move around. As long as you are checking frog wont get harmed. Temps should be 80-85 day 76-79 night as a guidline. Having mat on the side wont get this in the UK . I even have to use a ceramic heat bulb on top of mesh of exo terra he is in, or my temps are under 80"

[Bedore]

this is from another thread (on this forum) "Hi Im in the UK too , heat mat at bottom is fine. I have been doing this over a year . As long as you use thermo to keep temps set You are fine. On another UK forum there are peeps saying They cannot get temps with heat mat on side, and frogs move around. As long as you are checking frog wont get harmed. Temps should be 80-85 day 76-79 night as a guidline. Having mat on the side wont get this in the UK . I even have to use a ceramic heat bulb on top of mesh of exo terra he is in, or my temps are under 80"

There are also many posts on this forum advising against placing a heating pad under the tank. The general consensus is that you shouldn't do it, but if that is what works for you than go for it. I however will not do it and I don't recommend this method for anyone else. We all want to provide proper husbandry for our amphibian friends and there are many ways of going about it. I chose to put my mat on the side and added a ceramic heat emitter and it worked out great, as it does for many others and it would work out great for your setup as well I do believe. Why risk it? But in the end the decision is yours. I do agree and I even found out myself that only placing a small heat pad on my tank did not get the temperatures where they need to be and considering the climate here (which is very cold) I had to add a ceramic heat emitter hooked into a thermostat and it regulates temperatures with no problem. Of course YMMV.

[Manwell]

I hear what you're saying and in an ideal world this would be possible, by the time Manwell's an adult I will have adapted his exo terra to accommodate a side and/or back fitted heat mat or mats, but in the meantime I am very concerned my little man is younger than originally anticipated and his immediate and long term health is at risk if I don't meet his needs RIGHT NOW? I am very concerned about using light overhead heat as he's albino so this is a short term solution for the here and now, the good news is that he's now very active and eating well, I don't know much about frogs but I've kept hundreds of animal species and my experience tells me he's "happy"


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[GrifTheGreat]

He won't burn my heat mat is already attached to a thermostat which shuts the heat mat off at 30 degrees, most people here in the UK heat and successfully maintain pacmen in this way

You do realize that the heat pad has to still become hot enough to push the heat through the substrate and THEN begin to warm the ambient air within the enclosure where the probe for the thermostat is located. How often do you uncover the area where the heat pad is located and test the glass temp?? My guess is never.

You do not place a heat source under the tank for burrowing frogs. Not only can they be overheated if they burrow over it, but the heat pad can actually crack the glass from getting too hot. Just because one person assumes it is fine does not mean that it is. To ignore experienced keepers in favor of a less experienced person who's ideals support yours is not a smart idea.

People in the northern US with much lower temps than where you live manage to maintain proper climate without placing the heat pad on the bottom. Place the heat pad on the side and get a low watt infrared heat bulb with a lamp that has a dimmer switch to maintain the climate. It can also help to raise the ambient air temp in the roo where the frog is kept to help maintain the climate.

[Manwell]

You deleted my last comment but in short I said (and I'll say it again) I think you're very rude; I have 3 probes one of which is UNDER the substrate and fyi I check him every 15/20 mins at the moment

DO NOT make assumptions you may one day be very surprised who you are talking to

[GrifTheGreat]

You deleted my last comment but in short I said (and I'll say it again) I think you're very rude; I have 3 probes one of which is UNDER the substrate and fyi I check him every 15/20 mins at the moment

DO NOT make assumptions you may one day be very surprised who you are talking to

If I deleted your comment it would say I did. Don't accuse a moderator of deleting one of your comments for no reason. I'm sorry you feel that comment was rude, but I am honestly trying to help take it or leave it. When someone makes a valid point and you get mad then you must not really want help. You seem to be looking for validation. If my experience means nothing to you then by all means disregard anything I say and do what you like. I don't believe in sugar coating the truth. I DO know what I'm talking about. I care for 30 frogs everyday. How many do you care for?

[Bedore]

I hear what you're saying and in an ideal world this would be possible, by the time Manwell's an adult I will have adapted his exo terra to accommodate a side and/or back fitted heat mat or mats, but in the meantime I am very concerned my little man is younger than originally anticipated and his immediate and long term health is at risk if I don't meet his needs RIGHT NOW? I am very concerned about using light overhead heat as he's albino so this is a short term solution for the here and now, the good news is that he's now very active and eating well, I don't know much about frogs but I've kept hundreds of animal species and my experience tells me he's "happy"


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Overhead heat will not harm or affect your albino in any way. Overhead lighting is not good for an albino's eyes but a ceramic heat emitter is NOT a light emitting device, it's a ceramic bulb that produces heat and no light. Many of us that live in cold areas successfully use a ceramic heat emitter. If you google ceramic heat emitter you will see what I am talking about.

Keep in mind that you came here looking for advice on how to heat a pacman frog enclosure. What you do with that advice is up to you, but this forum has tons of information and lots of good members who have a lot of experience with pacman frogs, their housing requirements, their care, and proper husbandry. Ultimately we all want the best for our frogs so I suggest you do some more reading and make your own conclusions. I still stand by the fact that a heat mat under the tank is not a good idea especially for a burrowing frog. If you are truly concerned about his long term well being then I urge you to do more reading on this forum and consider the advice already given to you.

[DesertHeat]

DO NOT make assumptions you may one day be very surprised who you are talking to

Lol. Really? Who you are and what you do matters not at all. You're an inexperienced Pacman keeper who came here for advice, received that advice, and summarily ignored it. Then you proceeded to blast the people who were only trying to help you.

Even if it turns out you're the PM or even the Queen Mum, you're still ignoring good advice. That to me is the epitome of rude.



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[Manwell]

the PM is male and the Queen Mum is dead, so nope, neither of those. Yes I did indeed come here for "help" and no I don't have 30 frogs so my bad! Thanks Bedore for the light/heat clarification that IS really helpful, I appreciate the fact you understood my concern about the light issue. Manwell is happy in his "temporary" set up (which granted isn't perfect but it is meeting his basic needs) while I endeavour to sort out his exo terra which will be his permanent home, but I'm not going to leave him in it with insufficient heat just because someone says so, moderator or not, you are not god and you don't own MY animals.

Honestly I'm not "ignoring" good advice FAR from it, I've never read so much in my blooming life lol I'm just getting frustrated because things aren't working or going to "plan" so excuse my frustration I didn't mean to take it out on anyone I am enormously concerned for the welfare of my little man (and all the animals in my care).

Which is why I'm sticking with this and not just having a strop and walking away, he's too important to me.