new to frogs and have some questions

[jdr]

First of all I would like to say hello. I have been interested in having frogs for some time now and just tried to do as much resurch as posable first and I have some questions regarding my plans to make sure I'm on the right track. First is my set up I'm planning on making a dinning room table around a 125 gallon aquarium half of it below the top of the table the rest above I plan on having live plants inside (depending on what frogs will be best for me) for lighting I have led strip lighting that will go around the black rim of the aquarium (I have some I used to grow coral with as well as blue night light that are dim) I have a misting unit I was going to use that can be hooked up to a hemostat to maintain humidity I would like to put a volcano shape in the center with a waterfall down to a pond in the middle with sloaped sides leading out to the planted level. The planted level will start off with gravel with a layer of fiberglass screen on top then a layer of soil (no fertilizer) to plant my plants in. And a cross fan with a vent on the oppiset side. And a glass top

Now for the questions
Does my plan fit for tree frogs (preferably the red eyed leaf frog)?
Does my plan fit for dart frogs?
Will the aquarium be to large?
Am I missing anything in my plan?

[deranged chipmunk]

Not really sure if it will work with such a vague description. You included no dimensions.

I can tell you that the light in for corals are of a different color temp than that needed for plants. Reed led's morally come in the 10,000k range, which is wonderful for the algae that corals feed on, but not very conducive to leafy any growth. They will grow, but not as well as they would as if they were under 6500k lighting.

If you could provide a bit more info about this project, we could help more. Things like how you plan on sealing the wood, dimensions of the tank, ect.

[jdr]

The aquarium is a standard 125 gallon 72" long18" wide21" tall. As for the wood table that will built around the aquarium I will use cherry wood and seal it with laqure but again it will be on the outside of the aquarium so it should not matter. The led light I have is considered super bright they don't have krrating but I was told that they will work for plants I will do a test before using them.

[Eric and Stitch]

Tree frogs like vertical space, the taller the better. I have Red Eyes myself and have found in my 10 gallon verticle conversion tank (about 18 inches tall) that unless they are eating or soaking, they are constantly roaming or sleeping at the very top of the tank. In my 30 inch tall tank they would roam to within 8 inches of the bottom but sleep 8 inches from the top. My real Tree frog tank is 48 inches tall, they love that, at 20 inches up I place the cricket bowl in a Suction cup mount I made, and at 24 inches I have a silicone seal depression in a 'tree branch" that catches water from the mister that they soak in. the only time they go lower than 18 inches is the soaking tree branch is too crowded (6 frogs) and soak in my ground level pond.

all that aside, the great thing with tree frogs is they don't need a sophisticated ground environment, I have an inch of water with aquarium gravel that varies from 1 1/4 inches to 1/2 inch deep with bamboo planted in it and a water filter/circulation pump and a beta bowl pad style water heater under the gravel. makes maintenance/cleaning a breeze

A perk is that they will always be at the top of the tank and visible since it is so short.
a con is that any light tells them to sleep, so they are pretty boring during normal human gatherings.

certain dart frogs would probably suit you better, more flashy, awake in daylight, can climb textured surfaces.

as far as care of dart frogs.... I've never owned them so someone else can fill you in.

I'm not telling you not to get Red Eyes, I'm just cautioning you that there are other possibly better suited frogs for this build.

If you want a cool idea of tank turned furniture that would suit Red Eyes or other arboreal species, think of a shelving unit around a tank or Grandfather clock.

[jdr]

I was leaning more to the darts in the beginning but the tree frogs are what I find in local pet stores and I don't like to buy online because I have had bad experiences with fish and coral. I'll look more into the care of darts and where I can buy them if I can with in a hours drive of canton Ohio. I'm looking to bring interest to my dining room and I love tropical plants. So darts will work best for us. From what I have read if you set up your vivarium correctly darts can be fairly easy to care for. So I'll look more into them. As well as what kind do best in a group because of the size of the aquarium I don't think I just want one or two in there

[deranged chipmunk]

Depends on the size of the aquarium as to how many you can have. Dendrobates leucomelas are the ones I normally recommend for a beginner that wants a group. There are many different morphs to choose from and they do well in groups. They also like to climb, so they will utilize all the space in a tank.

[deranged chipmunk]

Sorry, forgot it was a 125. You can have a herd of frogs in a 125. I would not go more than 8 or so. for one thing, it's a pain to track a lot of frogs in a big tank. I have a little experience with that one since I have built a 125 into a vivarium. Also keep in mind that they will most likely breed if you are able to acquire both sexes, which gives you the option of selling them off, or adding them to the tank.

[Eric and Stitch]

If you're looking for an awesome source of frogs and an awesome resource of knowledge. Michael Novy is based around Cleveland and like to breed some of the exotics. He makes posts in the "for sale/trade" thread of this forum with lists of what he has and prices. Just make sure if you call him, you have time to chat. He is an awesome frog guy to talk to. And 20 minutes with him on the phone will answer a lot of your questions.

[jdr]

From what I have read so for dart frogs need a viv that has 3 walls covered to make them more comfortable and to give them security is this the case with the Dendrobates leucomelas? If so I don't think the dining room table would work for them. But I can put it on the wall next to the table

[Eric and Stitch]

It's a security vs vulnerability thing. If you have enough 3d features in there for them to kind of feel like they my be tucked in someplace you might be able to get by with four open sides. Like 6-8 inch tall logs laid out in an H pattern in your tank or two stumps with a log fallen between them. 0-0. That way if you're the frog you feel like there are three sides covered but the tank is 360 visible. And the frogs could climb up over the top to go from side to side as a short cut.

A second idea is to place walls separating the tank into four different tanks, each with its own pane of glass of the big tank as a viewing point. It would a allow for keeping a variety instead of just one species. One con is that if this thing is too tall to look over, you've just cut everyone's view of other ppl at the table.

Just some ideas.

[jdr]

Let me make sure I'm on the right track. I'm going to put the viv against the wall so I can provide more security for the frogs for the background I'm thinking of starting with sheet styrophom to get the basic shape of caves, platforms, and planters then use great stuff to fill in cut and sand it into the shape I want I will also make a water fall with a cavity behind to to get to the pump as well as to pump the water out of the bottom. Make a false bottom out of the plastic light cover that you get at home depot cover that with landscape fabric or fiberglass screen (still trying to figure out what's best your opinion is incuraged) followed by a layer of abg mix (or a homemade version depending on what's easier to get) leaf litter on top and coat the back wall with coco fiber (silicon or tight bond yet again what do you think is best). And is a shallow pond a good idea or bad I know how to do a pondles waterfall. As for the misting system can I use the water from the false bottom for the mistimg system or would this be a bad idea I plan to change the water in the false bottom weekley

Plants I'm thinking bromeliads orchids and a ground cover I have not desided what I want on that yet

[Tongue Flicker]

Low-growing bromeliads like neoregelias and crypthantus are nice. Small tillandsias for vertical fixtures are nice as well.

[Eric and Stitch]

Landscape fabric is tighter, will still allow water to drain but will do a better job of keeping soil from getting into the false bottom. ive used fiberglass window screen and the false bottom turned to mud, especially if you hope to use that water for misting, you want to keep it clean.
On the topic of misting water. distilled water or Reverse Osmosis waters are great to reduce water spots on the glass and more readily promotes humidity.

[jdr]

So landscape fabric is the best solution. And go with a outside of viv misting system or just use ro water in the false bottom? (that will have a weekly change)

[deranged chipmunk]

I used to use landscape fabric, but found it drains too slowly, for my taste. Went to a double layer of fiberglass screening.

I prefer titebond over silicone. It takes longer, but worth the extra time.

Darts would prefer a 3 sided enclosure, but it is not mandatory. I have seen several island set ups for darts and they do just fine if the enclosure is planted well.

The key to keeping your soil from turning to mud is plan to have your final water level about 1" below the false bottom, to avoid wicking water up into the substrate.

[deranged chipmunk]

I have done internal misting systems. However i over filter the water to be sure it is clean. If going to RO route on the water, don't use straight RO/DI water. Mix some tap in there. The tap will provide both the frogs and plants with trace minerals that RO/DI is missing.

[jdr]

Thanks Bill I'm going to do a test run on a old 10 gallon tank with the tightbond method because I'm new to it. I have made my own background for saltwater with foam and Portland cement I'm sure tightbond will be just as easy and less time consuming. And what % of RO/DI to tap would you recommend? And would mosquito screen doubled up work then (I have some that's fiberglass) I knows its a much tighter mesh then standard fiberglass screen

[deranged chipmunk]

You can probably get away with a single layer of mosquito netting since it is a nice, tight weave.

As far as the RO/tap mix, it all depends on what your water quality is in the first place. I have mixed in my paludariums before, but I only mixed to get my pH where I wanted it, about 6.4-6.6. That's about where my plants, both aquatic and terrestrial like it.

[jdr]

So not much of cantons tap water it sucks lol. Thank you so much for your help so far

[jdr]

Has anyone ever tried to use poly foam caulk saver sold at Lowes also known in the construction trade as backer rod to make vines on the background of there viv. I can't upload a pic of it from my phone for some reason but it comes in different diameters from 1/4 to 1" and Lowes sells it in 20' sections