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Thread: A new build with a few questions.

  1. #1
    bennyboy
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    Default A new build with a few questions.

    Hi to everybody here,

    I am starting to kit out my tanks to house different species of Australian green tree frogs. but i have run into a few snags along the way. This is my first time i have ever started anything like this, and although i have searched high and low on certain answers, some of them i cant find.

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    So that is a pic that i am working with. I want to have all 4 bays planted with live plants, misting system, led night viewing lights ( if it is workable and ok with the frogs ) And you get where i am going with it.

    It is really expensive in Australia to make to many mistakes, as i learnt yesterday when trying to do my first background ( i positioned my corkbark, started with the expander foam, and it completely swallowed it and now i have hard white freckles all over the bark and if i try and get them off it pulls the top layer of bark off and just shows the cork. ) So if someone could point me in the right direction that would be great and hopefully i can start to get this happening.

    Q1. I would like to put my backgrounds on a sheet of polystyrene so they can be removable if need be. Do i need to seal the sheets first with silicone or anything? And is it the whole sheet that has to be done or just the back, top, and sides ( as the front will be done with cork bark, expander foam and substrate. )

    Q2. Substrate. There are so many answers it is a bit confusing, substrate for the background, what is the best or most suitable to attach to the background. ( i am assuming anything that is organic without the pesticides and nasties ) i have heard of Eco Earth but i don't think we have that here. And same goes for the substrate on the floor, which would be suitable and non harming for the frogs ( again assuming anything organic ) but not totally sure.

    Q3. Substrate depth for the floor. My false bottom is about 4" high, how deep does the substrate have to be? i did read somewhere about 6" but that seems really high, between 6" deep and 4" false floor that would be nearly 1/3 of the height of my tanks, and tree frogs don't burrow so is that depth really necessary.

    Q4. Last one. What kind of options are there to keep my floor substrate out of the water part, is cork bark ok to be submerged in a bit of water or will it rot out over time, or are there any other methods people have done that have worked well.

    Well that's all folks, i would really appreciate anyone to be able to shed some light on this for me if they could, i been racking my brains about it for a while now, ( as it is it has taken me nearly 2 months just to get 2 of the false floors done, always changing my mind and having to alter it ) keep going at my rate and it will never be done.

    Thanks again
    BennyBoy.

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  3. #2
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: A new build with a few questions.

    Hi Ben! I'm not a vivarium building expert, so will let Bill answer many of those those later. Still wanted to tell you that is one gorgeous piece of furniture and enclosure set-up .
    Quote Originally Posted by bennyboy View Post
    So that is a pic that i am working with. I want to have all 4 bays planted with live plants, misting system, led night viewing lights ( if it is workable and ok with the frogs ) And you get where i am going with it.
    LED's are fine with frogs. Will need to get ones burning around 6,500K for the plants.

    Q2. Substrate. There are so many answers it is a bit confusing, substrate for the background, what is the best or most suitable to attach to the background. ( i am assuming anything that is organic without the pesticides and nasties ) i have heard of Eco Earth but i don't think we have that here. And same goes for the substrate on the floor, which would be suitable and non harming for the frogs ( again assuming anything organic ) but not totally sure.

    EcoEarth or Plantation Soil are substrates made of shredded coco. Maybe they are sold under another brand in there. To glue it to background, you can use aquarium silicone glue (messy and stinky) or make a slur mixing substrate with Titebond 3 and "painting" the slur into background material.

    Q4. Last one. What kind of options are there to keep my floor substrate out of the water part, is cork bark ok to be submerged in a bit of water or will it rot out over time, or are there any other methods people have done that have worked well.
    From bottom upwards you would have the false floor extending above the maximum water line. Then a layer of fiber glass screening (hardware store), followed by 1/2 in. thick polyester quilt bating (sewing or crafts store) or aquarium filter material to prevent your soil from falling into water. Experienced members recommend adding that second layer of poly material and myself plan to do so on next build: http://www.frogforum.net/dart-frogs-...e-barrier.html. Then you would have your substrate level and if planting plants there, recommend ABG type soil. If not, shredded coco is fine. In regards to the minimum substrate depth; will let Bill handle that one.
    ...
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  4. #3
    bennyboy
    Guest

    Default Re: A new build with a few questions.

    Thanks for that Carlos, when i first bought that tank setup it looked nothing like that, it took me a few months to get it where it is now, lots of sanding, staining and getting the tanks repaired and divided, but if it turns out like i am envisioning, it will look great once i am done.

    Thanks for answering some of those questions, i forgot about the titebond III, i think that will be the way to go. I wish i had taken pics from the start to now but i will do it from here on in and post the project as it's getting done.

    Thanks,
    BennyBoy

  5. #4

    Default A new build with a few questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by bennyboy View Post
    Hi to everybody here,

    I am starting to kit out my tanks to house different species of Australian green tree frogs. but i have run into a few snags along the way. This is my first time i have ever started anything like this, and although i have searched high and low on certain answers, some of them i cant find.

    Name:  20131114_073442 (Copy).jpg
Views: 191
Size:  57.9 KB

    So that is a pic that i am working with. I want to have all 4 bays planted with live plants, misting system, led night viewing lights ( if it is workable and ok with the frogs ) And you get where i am going with it.

    It is really expensive in Australia to make to many mistakes, as i learnt yesterday when trying to do my first background ( i positioned my corkbark, started with the expander foam, and it completely swallowed it and now i have hard white freckles all over the bark and if i try and get them off it pulls the top layer of bark off and just shows the cork. ) So if someone could point me in the right direction that would be great and hopefully i can start to get this happening.

    Q1. I would like to put my backgrounds on a sheet of polystyrene so they can be removable if need be. Do i need to seal the sheets first with silicone or anything? And is it the whole sheet that has to be done or just the back, top, and sides ( as the front will be done with cork bark, expander foam and substrate. )

    Q2. Substrate. There are so many answers it is a bit confusing, substrate for the background, what is the best or most suitable to attach to the background. ( i am assuming anything that is organic without the pesticides and nasties ) i have heard of Eco Earth but i don't think we have that here. And same goes for the substrate on the floor, which would be suitable and non harming for the frogs ( again assuming anything organic ) but not totally sure.

    Q3. Substrate depth for the floor. My false bottom is about 4" high, how deep does the substrate have to be? i did read somewhere about 6" but that seems really high, between 6" deep and 4" false floor that would be nearly 1/3 of the height of my tanks, and tree frogs don't burrow so is that depth really necessary.

    Q4. Last one. What kind of options are there to keep my floor substrate out of the water part, is cork bark ok to be submerged in a bit of water or will it rot out over time, or are there any other methods people have done that have worked well.

    Well that's all folks, i would really appreciate anyone to be able to shed some light on this for me if they could, i been racking my brains about it for a while now, ( as it is it has taken me nearly 2 months just to get 2 of the false floors done, always changing my mind and having to alter it ) keep going at my rate and it will never be done.

    Thanks again
    BennyBoy.
    Let me try to answer a few where Carlos left off.

    1. You can use polystyrene, but I have yet to see a removable background system work. It would be easy enough to build the background on the foam sheets and then silicone them in. You just have to have the dimensions of everything worked out perfectly before installing them, but that is not an easy task.

    2. ABG (Atlanta botanical gardens) mix is the most popular. There are plenty of formulas out there for making your own, which when covering such a large tank, would be much moe economical.

    3. Substrate depth of about 4-6" is about right. It's not about burrowing depth, but depth for the roots of your plants to grow into. Try growing a plant in a shallow dish, it just doesn't work well, hence the reason plants come in similarly deep pots.

    4. Keeping the substrate out of the water is impossible. I use black substrates for my paludariums, that way, if the frogs transfer some by falling in the water, it's not as noticeable.

    I recently changed substrates and replanted the tank, but you can see the black substrate.



    Hope that helps.
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
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  7. #5
    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
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    Default A new build with a few questions.

    Bennyboy, what a beautiful tank to have to work with . I can just see the options . Great find!

    Bill has you covered on the rest . I do hope you'll post a build journal as you go? We'd love to follow your progress .
    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203589094112277&id=1363241107&set =a.1434844115446.2055312.1363241107&source=11&ref= bookmark

  8. #6
    bennyboy
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    Default Re: A new build with a few questions.

    Thanks for getting back to me Bill, that clears some stuff up. I think i might have to re-plan a few things now, and maybe go down a different route. But i still think it is more than workable. I'll be sure to take lot's of pics and explain what i can along the way. I'll even start taking the blooper reel from here on in, as I'm sure there will be plenty to come.

    Thank you Heather. I'll be sure to doing my build log and post it once it's done. It might take a bit, but it will eventually be posted.

    Thank you again guys, all the advice is muchly appreciated.

    BennyBoy.

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