Odd question.. Inbreeding

[CHANT]

Still new to frogs. I have a lime albino pacman and pick up my pixie on saturday and for some reason it crossed my mind if inbreeding is dangerous with frogs? Not interspecies breeding of coarse. But is it a problem to breed frogs that were in the same spawn group if thats the correct term. Anyway just wondering. Thanks a heap for any insite.
-CHANT

[DesertHeat]

I'd imagine that once or twice might be alright, but eventually the problem of recessive gene expression would crop up and you'd have all sorts of health issues.

That being said I've just gotten starred with frogs and I'm no where near being ready to try breeding. Maybe one of the more experienced folks know better?

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[Mentat]

Depending on the original genetic health; inbreeding (i.e. parents to sons/daughters or brothers to sisters) usually becomes a significant problem by the 4th generation. Even when trying to fix a recessive gene; you have to introduce new genes to line every couple generations .

[huey75]

It's called line breeding and if done right you can strengthen your bloodlines and the traits you are trying to bring out but you do have to out cross or bring in fresh unrelated blood every few generations or you will start having deformations animals that are more prone to all kinds of problems. I breed pit bulls and rottweilers for years and I've seen both sides bad and good I believe all animals are the same it's completely different than brother and sister humans having kids which is in breeding with animals it's line breeding. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

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[Mentat]

Outcrossing refers to breeding genetically unrelated parents. Inbreeding refers to breeding closely related parents (1st cousins and closer). Line breeding is a milder inbreeding used to either maintain a desired trait or to save a declining population from extinction .

[huey75]

Thank you Mentat you explained it way better


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[Edisons 10K]

So (also new to frogs, so forgive my naivete), to mix it up a bit with the blood lines, is there a system with frog people like there is with dogs? I've been in the dog world for over fourteen years now, so I know how the breeding works there, but with frog breeders is it always, "I want a new bloodline, so I need to purchase some new frogs?" Or is there any sort of network where folks can stud out their frogs for a fee (for dogs the owner of the stud generally gets payment in the form of choice of litter or the cost of the average pup in the litter)? It probably seems like an odd question, but it seems like you'd wind up with an awful lot of frogs if you had to buy a new one every time you wanted to add in new bloodlines.

If I may ask, what is the average cost for a breeding...spawning?...anyway? Not that I have any intention of getting into that any time soon as, like I said, I'm totally new to owning frogs, but I'm generally curious. I see some of these morphs going for a lot of money online, which makes me wonder what the general payout is when it comes to selling frog babies. Again, comparing to dogs, bulldog pups are generally way more expensive than your average lab because there's a much higher health risk to the ***** during pregnancy, C-sections are pretty much always required, and there aren't even that many pups in a litter. The breeder winds up making very little off a puppy in most cases simply because the whole process of breeding bulldogs is highly expensive (not to mention the costs of health testing if the breeder is worth a damn).So, if anyone's willing to answer, what is the basic percentage of costs you have to put out versus money you bring back in on selling the babies?

[GrifTheGreat]

Usually to make a particular trait stay with the bloodline they will breed the siblings back to one another. This makes either the dominant or recessive traits the breeder wants come out in the next spawning. Now normally issues don't occur until around 4th generation line breeding. There is always the potential for defects, but once you start line breeding that far more appear.

About cost. Well just to feed the few thousand tadpoles that hatch it costs around $90.00 per day and thats just food. Their water must me. changed nearly 100% each day due to them being extremely sensitive to their water becoming even mildly dirty or fouled. Depending on what species you would breed determines the amount of profit as well. Mutants that are produced by Samurai Blue spawns can go for up to $6K just for a single frog. C. aurita spawns are also profitable due to the species being rare. For one baby it costs anywhere from $300 to $500. When each spawn produces 1500 to 3000 tadpoles that is a decent profit.

Now not all of them get sold at that cost. When being sold to a wholesaler there is a discount or wholesale price that is paid thus each frog is sold at a lower cost because of the large number of frogs bought by the wholesaler. A profit is still made because the main breeders in the US have several spawns going at once and price can be negotiated. Mike Matson of Mike's Phat Frogs could explain a little better.

[Edisons 10K]

$6k per frog???? Good god! That's crazy! I almost bought a Blue Sammi from Mike today, actually, lol. I really, really want one, and it'll probably be my next frog purchase (I told him that, lol). But, yeah, their higher cost from the getgo means waiting a little bit before I pick one up. LLL had them going for $45, but Mike's $60 ones were prettier and brighter in color. You definitely steered me in the right direction on that one, Grif. I do believe I have a favorite breeder, lol. I'm hoping he'll be at the even bigger reptile tradeshow up in Pomona in January. I can probably pick up that Blue with my Christmas money.

...And I am soooo off topic now, lol! Sorry. ADD moment. Anywho, good to know about the general cost of breeding ($90 a day just for feeding - ouch!). That, alone, is a good deterrent for putting a cease fire on any breeding attempts from the super inexperienced. Seems like it could be great investment in the long run, but the startup costs are crazy! Not to mention the difficulties in what it takes to make the frogs ready to attempt to breed in the first place. And I thought dogs were difficult (when done properly). Yeesh!