White's Treefrog bleeding - HELP Please.

[Lynda]

I have a White's treefrog, 14.5 yrs. of age who has blood on her rock, waterbowl and floor of her tank; She is eating vigorously, has not lost weight, and moves fine. I had her to a vet who examined her and could not find any tumors, and her stool sample was negative. She was on Baytril every other day for 7 days (was injected in a cricket and fed to her); her bleeding stopped for 4 days but has started up again. Also, this a.m. there was a small one inch pile of yellowish cream on the tank floor, like mucous. The vet is only available a couple of days a week so I thought I would ask if anyone has experienced this with their White's? Any comments would be appreciated. I was thinking she might need a prolonged dose of the antibiotic? Thanks.

[Mentat]

Hello Lynda and sorry your long term pet is sick ! Do not keep White's myself; but will give you some ideas until other experience keepers answer thread.

If Baytril stopped the bleeding partially; it appears the pathogen or issue was temporarily set-back, but not beaten. Maybe a stronger antibiotic is required. Did veterinary do or sent blood for any viral or bacterial blood analysis or culturing?

If interested in a second opinion; please email Dr. Frye and explain to him the situation. Recommend include pics, length, and weight of frog. He helps a lot of forum members and only charges for prescribed medications. Good luck !

[Bolisnide]

I'm sorry your going through this...
where is she bleeding from? her bottom? could the fecal test be false? I would do another fecal test, if possible. maybe parasitic?

[Lynda]

Thanks for the help Carlos, the vet did not do or send blood for any viral or bacterial blood analysis but I will check into that. I will also contact Dr. Frye. I appreciate your input.

[Lynda]

I was wondering about the false fecal test too Bolisnide, will check into that. Thanks very much.

[Mentat]

Thanks for the help Carlos, the vet did not do or send blood for any viral or bacterial blood analysis but I will check into that. I will also contact Dr. Frye. I appreciate your input.

I was wondering about the false fecal test too Bolisnide, will check into that. Thanks very much.

In regards to fecal tests, can also discuss sending a sample when contacting Dr. Frey. Also, ReptiLabs will conduct affordable fecal sampling for parasites. There is another online laboratory that does additional testing for pathogens; but can't find link now. Hopefully Lija or another member remembers it .

[Heatheranne]

I agree, I would have another fecal test done. Is the frog losing any weight? How is his energy level?

[Lynda]

She seems fine Heather, eating good and not losing weight, activity seems normal too. Thanks for the help, will have another fecal done.

[Lynda]

Thanks for the fecal info Carlos, I have e-mailed Dr. Frey with pictures.

[Heatheranne]

You're welcome. Please keep us posted.

[Lynda]

I do have a male White's in with her so if she had parasites, wouldn't he have them too? He is 14.5 too, I got them at the same time.

[Heatheranne]

It is very likely. Does he have any symptoms? When I treat mine, I treat all who lived together. It would be good to move them to a hospital tank. That way you can watch them closely and decontaminate their regular home. No fun when they get sick .

[Lynda]

He has no symptoms at all. They are the only two in the tank. I have a divider between them when I feed them and have kept a diary of exactly what they have eaten over the years.

[Lija]

Ok, just wrote the long post and it got crashed summary, will add some later.

that is I would do if I were you:
- place both frogs in a separate hospital enclosures on papertowels and place inside something that you can disinfect easy, plants, brunches, etc, so they are not stressed out. Cover all 4 sides of their tanks.
- completely disinfect the tank they're in now.
Both of them because you don't know what that is and blood in a tank is no good for the other one too.
- schedule an app with your vet, if he knows frogs. And go with suggested treatment plan, and you need to get samples of poop tested for both.

Fecal test can be false negative if a sample is not fresh enough or infestation is mild, if you can swing by any vet clinic and ask for sample vial, use it to collect the sample, it has a nice little scoop inside.
A few things come to mind here - colon or cloaca tumours and parasites or both.
There is nothing you can do if these are tumours, nor you can it diagnose easily, they might be visible on ultrasound, but a person evaluating it have to be a Pro.
You can test blood if needed and that is why I say go with a treatment plan suggested by your vet. Given he is a amphibian specialist. If you want to check it out go to ARAV, they have a list of people who specialize in reptiles, you can also contact association if anything in question. Of course there might be someone who treats exotics and not a member of this association, but all who is constantly updating themselves and up-to-date vets will be there.

[Lynda]

Thank you Lija. I disinfect my tank weekly and have been doing so daily since the blood has been present. I will have the fecal repeated and return to the vet for a continued plan. Thanks very much for your input.

[Lija]

You are welcome, I hope she is fine and it is nothing serious, but I think we talk tumours here... A frog is 14 y old.
Make sure you get both frogs tested.
the reason I suggested to go with your vet plan is, although the second opinion will never hurt, but it is always better to go exactly by the plan IF that someone is amphibian vet. Something different might mess up whatever your vet is trying to do. It is like you start one type of antibiotics and then switch them to other ones and not finish them all and then switch them up again, not only bacteria might get resistant to everything but you will achieve exact opposite of you were trying to do.

When you discuss treatment plan with your vet, ask about prognosis and act accordingly, sometimes with poor prognosis and no really chances to be better you might need to make some difficult decisions. Sorry, I had to say that..... I've just made one of those today ((((( so sad.
But do not make this decision without second and perhaps third opinion involved.

[Lynda]

You might be right Lija, she is 14.5. My vet got back to me and we will be on the same treatment plan of the Baytril for 2 more wks. He also mentioned if that didn't work it could very well be cancer. He is an excellent amphibian vet and was with our zoo for 23 years. The second opinion also suggested prolonging the baytril treatment for a couple of wks. I understand about prognosis, etc. but right now she is eating, moving and making good eye contact, so I will go from there. I am sorry you had to make that decision today. Thanks for your help.

[Mentat]

Glad you got a second opinion and have a plan to follow Lynda. You got great advice, so I'm just hanging around and hoping your frog recovers soon !

[Heatheranne]

Thanks, Lija! Great advice!
I'll be waiting to hear also.

[Lynda]

Thanks Carlos. As you will recall, you suggested continued treatment of the antibiotic so I am grateful to you as well.