(Earth)worms escaping stomach...?

[Pyxiefan001]

I was feeding my Pyxie tonight and got two nightcrawlers into her (she took 'em, as usual). But before sheate the second one the first one kept. . .for lack of any better description. . .trying to get out of her stomach. I've seen this before and that's why I usually wait a minute before offering her another worm. They're her preferred food.


I moved her out of her water basin and onto the moist paper towels I currently have (I hope those fecal results come back negative so I can move her out of that ugly hospital tank) and, after some consideration on her part, ate a second full sized 'crawler. Later she moved back into her water basin and I tried to feed her an adult male Dubia (I know she can/will eat more than what she did tonight, especially since her last poop was on 9/3). The roach's scuttling through the water sparked a good response out of her but it seemed the worm(s) trying to make another bid for freedom out of her again took the flare of it right out of her. She stopped and made these gulping movements to get them back down it looked like.


Also as I was offering her a third 'crawler (while she was still out of the water) she did this sort of. . . "yawning" like you normally see when they're shedding, but she clearly was not in this case. Might this have something todo with the escaping worms?

Long post short: she was clearly hungry, but the worms trying to get back out of her stomach killed her appetite. Is this a common occurrence? What can I do in the future to stop it? I already wait a minute in between feeding individual worms for just this reason. Though clearly not underweight, I'm used to seeing my Pyxie eat more than this per feeding. Perhaps I'll see if she'll take a couple of more worms before the daily disinfecting tomorrow (unless of course the vet calls by then and tells me she's finally nematode-free).

UPDATE: She made stool not long afterwards, and here's what it looked like. Is this the result of the staple of nightcrawlers I feed her (she's a bit picky, eating only a couple of Dubia before tiring of them and I offer Samurai only weekly, thinking it's too rich for a staple). . .or are the parasites still present (hoping vet will confirm that tomorrow)?

She's currently acting a bit restless now for me taking her out of her water basin to clean it and probably because she hates the hospital tank as much as I do.

[Mentat]

Have not witnessed a night crawler trying to "get out of a frog stomach" once it's swallowed.

[GrifTheGreat]

Have seen them almost lose a worm that is half way in the gut when they lunge for another worm before finishing the first. Its nit actually crawling out of the stomach.

I've never had any of my frogs have loose or runny stool from Night Crawlers. NEVER! If everything in their body is functioning correctly stool should be normal and well shaped.

[Pyxiefan001]

UPDATE: Vet called earlier today and although there traces of worm larvae in the sample I brought in, doc said they weren't parasitic. But they strange stool of last night still concerns me. So what should I do?

[Mentat]

UPDATE: Vet called earlier today and although there traces of worm larvae in the sample I brought in, doc said they weren't parasitic. But they strange stool of last night still concerns me. So what should I do?

Hum... that does not make sense. Did veterinary stated what kind of worms? If in the frogs digestive system; how could they be non-parasitic and what are them larvae doing there ?

[Truffs1178]

When mine was a baby I tried giving him some Phoenix worms and he would poop them out still alive! Never had that with worms though.

[Pyxiefan001]

ANOTHER UPDATE: My other vet gave me plain Panacur, which only gets rid of parasites. If the problem is bacterial, I would've needed some Flagyl mixed with that, right? I sent these photos to my new vet (wasn't happy with my other one).

I called the new doc back and he tired to feed me some meaningless tripe about how "worms and parasites are everywhere. . .environmental thing." I stressed upon him the frog in question was born and raised in captivity, if that meant anything to him I dunno. I don't think he he even said what kind they were, though my other vet ruled nematodes.

In any case HE at least didn't seem to worry as long as Frog wasn't losing weight, which does not appear to be the case. But the stool of last night still worries me and makes me think something's still not right.

Does this mean I should keep her in the hospital cage for the time being STILL and keep disinfecting it every day. URGH! But so be it. . .

I NEED ANSWERS!

[Mentat]

All stop and re-group. Panacur does not get rid of all parasites but does work safely against intestinal worms. Your veterinary should weight your frog and give you a treatment based on it. Also, based on the actual kind of worms present, there will be a number of re-treatments to deal with the eggs hatching into future worm generations.

There are many kind of worms, and the reason for the fecal, is to identify the parasites (worms or protozoan) or if bacterias are the cause. Then the proper treatment can be applied. Would not mix any other treatments with Panacur unless under the care of a veterinary that is experienced and trained to work with amphibs. Hope Lija reads this thread and adds her comments too. Good luck !

[Pyxiefan001]

All stop and re-group. Panacur does not get rid of all parasites but does work safely against intestinal worms. Your veterinary should weight your frog and give you a treatment based on it. Also, based on the actual kind of worms present, there will be a number of re-treatments to deal with the eggs hatching into future worm generations.

There are many kind of worms, and the reason for the fecal, is to identify the parasites (worms or protozoan) or if bacterias are the cause. Then the proper treatment can be applied. Would not mix any other treatments with Panacur unless under the care of a veterinary that is experience and trained to work with amphibs. Hope Lija reads this thread and adds her comments too. Good luck !

That's just what I did with my other vet - weighed Frog with a digital gram scale, gave them hat number, and they concocted the Panacur. It was they who ruled that Frog had nematodes. Did treatment as instructed - give dose ONE that day, give SECOND dose two weeks later. Waited two weeks and then had fecal done at new vet. Told me there were still larvae there but they weren't parasitic. Puzzles me, too, especially seeing Frog's waste still looks odd. Still in hospital tank and disinfecting daily. Sent stool pics to new doctor. Don't know what to do know.

[GrifTheGreat]

A Panacur/Metronidazole(Flagyl) suspension should be used to treat this. It will rid the frog of various nematodes, intestinal bacteria, and protozoa.

[mattfish]

it could also be that she is stressed out. frogs have runny stool if they are stressed. i would try a fish from a local market, a frozen mouse,or a frozen fresh water eel. it may have alot to do with a lack of diversity in your frogs diet. i love going to seafood markets and trying something new for Mr. Pickles. it may be expensive but its worth it!

[Pyxiefan001]

UPDATE: I found this e-mail from my (new) vet upon coming back home from work, regarding the stool pictures:

She does appear to have diarrhea or loose stool. There are many causes for this in frogs. Her fecal flotation was negative for parasites, but certain protozoa would be difficult to diagnose on normal fecal tests. Did they see any pinworm eggs at the previous veterinarian?
Potential causes of loose stool include: any cause of increased urination, protozoal infections, bacterial infections, viral infections, dietary changes.
Many of the causes could be treated with metronidazole. The previous veterinarian may be able to prescribe it for you. Legally, for me to be able to do so, I would need to examine her at some point before prescribing any drugs.

Looks like I got some calls to make tomorrow.

it could also be that she is stressed out. frogs have runny stool if they are stressed. i would try a fish from a local market, a frozen mouse,or a frozen fresh water eel. it may have alot to do with a lack of diversity in your frogs diet. i love going to seafood markets and trying something new for Mr. Pickles. it may be expensive but its worth it!

Well, I do feed her some thawed silversides (get 'em at Petsmart) every month. Haven't offered pinky mice in quite a while b/c they were expensive and not really very good nutritionally. As for her being stressed, I find it hard to believe if she was stressed she would even eat, which she has been doing throughout this quaratining/treatment process. Although I'm sure she hates the hospital cage as much as I do and I know she's happy with me about disinfecting it every day, which of course involves removing her from it daily. So. . .stress from the daily disinfectings. . .lack of dietary variety? I'll try some Dubias tonight and see what kind of waste that yields.

UPDATE:
Well the Dubias were a failure. She was there outside the water basin, took two grabs at the first roach and gave up trying to eat altogether. I don't get it. She used to be so fond of eating. Now she's been acting like a diva. Probably the hospital tank stress thing again. UGH!

[danfrog]

I have a video and pic of this. Here is the pic. The vid is pretty long. Ill upload it if you guys really really want. You can see the worm crawling around his throat sac.

[danfrog]

He had about 4 and a half nightcrawlers that night. He just kept accepting food. Later I noticed his throat sac moving, and looked like and was a nightcrawler squirming. This what your talking about right?