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Thread: Concerned with new baby pacman

  1. #1
    kainu7
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    Default Concerned with new baby pacman

    Hello,

    I just bought a baby pacman from my local petsmart, he seems rather skinny. Two separate employees said he was eating 1-4 small crickets a day but looking at him he seems rather bony. Do these pictures look concerning?

    Also, I suspect from pictures I have seen around the forum that he may be a Green Apple Pacman. Does this look correct? I assumed Green Apples would not be available in stores.
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  3. #2

    Default

    Its a cranwelli. Very skinny.

    Answer these please, and we can get you set up properly.

    Trouble in the Enclosure

    “Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.
    1. Size of enclosure
    2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
    3. Humidity
    4. Temperature
    5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
    6. Materials used for substrate
    7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
    8. Main food source
    9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
    10. Lighting
    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    12. When is the last time he/she ate
    13. Have you found poop lately
    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
    15. How old is the frog
    16. How long have you owned him/her
    17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
    19. How often the frog is handled
    20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
    21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

  4. #3

    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    I just got a baby from petsmart. Looks like your frog and my frog might be from the same litter.

  5. #4
    kainu7
    Guest

    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    1. Size of enclosure - Medium critter keeper.
    2. # of inhabitants - 1 Pacman
    3. Humidity - 70-80%
    4. Temperature - Currently heating keeper with zoomed 6x8 1-5 gallon UTH
    5. Water - Tap water treated with prime for both misting and dish.
    6. Materials used for substrate - moistened coconut fiber
    7. Enclosure set up - coconut fiber was moistened with conditioned tap water.
    8. Main food source - two different employees said the frog was currently eating 1-4 small pinhead crickets a day. However, when I purchased him, two crickets were roaming free in his enclosure. He's very skinny, so I'm doubting that he was eating.
    9. Vitamins and calcium? - Today is the first day I've owned him. I dusted a single cricket with reptivite +D3 and placed it in his enclosure. So far, the frog has not attempted to eat it. I'm not surprised since this is the first day he's in his new cage.
    10. Lighting - I'm using a halogen light shined indirectly on his cage to provide additional heat. The light enters through a paper towel on the side of his keeper, so it shouldn't be too bright to stress him. I'll post a picture showing what I mean.
    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure - Since he's in such a small enclosure, I'm just using the pad for the nights and the light for additional heat during the day. No automation. I have an exo-terra combo hydrometer/thermometer to gauge his enclosure.
    12. When is the last time he/she ate - The employees said she ate everyday.
    13. Have you found poop lately - No.
    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure - See above and below.
    15. How old is the frog - The employees said they had the frog for around two weeks.
    16. How long have you owned him/her - Several hours.
    17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred - Captive, I'm sure.
    18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse - The shop keepers said they tried either a meal worm or a super worm ( I forget which ) but the frog had refused it. They said the frog was feeding on crickets.
    19. How often the frog is handled - Never besides when placed in a traveling container and taken from the store.
    20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area - It's on my computer desk.
    21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc) - I will be changing the water dish daily and the substrate weekly.


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    The light is fairly bright, but the enclosure stays dimly lit since it's filtering through paper towels. Also, I added some aluminum foil to the lid to help retain moisture - I left the vents on the side of the lid uncovered. It's also worth mentioning that the pet store had him improperly housed - they kept him on a bed of spiggum moss saying "He hasn't started to burrow yet, so we keep him on moss!" Almost immediately when I put him on coco fiber, he completely burrowed. I can hardly see his eyes right now he's buried so deep. I moved him to a quieter area of my room, away from the computer desk. he's now on his own table where he won't be bothered. Hopefully the poor guy calms down and eats. Is he thin enough to where I should consider force feeding? While in his transport dish from the store, he seemed very lively despite seeming so thin.

  6. #5

    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    Cool! You are not too far off. Let me help you out.

    3. Humidity should be around 80 percent.
    4. The heating pad should be attached to the side of the enclosure and not the bottom. If they need to cool off they will dig deeper.
    8. Don't listen to the employees. Nightcrawlers are the way to go. Give a day or two to adjust. Offer crickets nightly till it starts eating (one or two). Take off back legs and a couple front legs. Dont dust yet. Make sure the crickets are no bigger than the distance between the eyes. When it starts eating offer crickets from tongs (grab crickets by the head and give a small squish). When the frog starts eatimg crickets from tongs start offering small nightcrawler chunks, and start dusting.
    9. You need two different types of dusts. Calcium with D3. And multivitamins. I use for vitamins.

  7. #6
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    It sounds like you're doing everything correctly. You can try feeding it and getting it back up to a healthy weight, but that frog has NOT been eating regularly. They were either lying to you or it has something seriously medically wrong with it. My guess is they were lying. Also, in the pic you shot from above it's holding his arm oddly. Almost holding it bent backwards. May just be the way he was sitting, or could be an early sign of MBD.
    I don't want to sound pessimistic but you may want to make use of the return policy...

    This really ticks me off. If a store was keeping a dog or cat in that condition and sold it as healthy, they'd be up for animal cruelty. Heck, you could report them anyway since you have photo documentation of the condition you bought the frog in. Might not do any good, but at least it'd force them to go through some paper work.
    3.0 Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
    1.1 Thamnophis cyrtopsis ocellatus
    0.1 Ceratophrys cranwelli
    1.0 Litoria caerulea
    0.1 Terrapene carolina
    0.1 Python regius
    0.1 Grammostola rosea
    0.0.1 Brachypelma smithi
    0.1 Hogna carolinensis

  8. #7
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    Sorry, Danfrog's recommendations are correct. I read through the questions/answers too quickly

    I still think that front leg looks off though...
    3.0 Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
    1.1 Thamnophis cyrtopsis ocellatus
    0.1 Ceratophrys cranwelli
    1.0 Litoria caerulea
    0.1 Terrapene carolina
    0.1 Python regius
    0.1 Grammostola rosea
    0.0.1 Brachypelma smithi
    0.1 Hogna carolinensis

  9. #8

    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    10. That should be okay. I use lights for heat mostly.
    12. The emloyees arnt truthful.
    18. Meal worms and superworms are a nogo. If worst comes to worst you can use waxworms as a treat, but beware... I used wax worms to spark my baby's appetite and it constipated her. Now I'm dealing with that.
    21. Substrate can be changed every three weeks to every month.

    Day time temps should be 82-84 degrees, and for night 77-78 degrees.They need a 12 on 12 off for day and night cycles. Make sure you cover three sides of your frogs enclosure to reduce stress. Here is what I use for my new baby.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    Quote Originally Posted by DVirginiana View Post
    Sorry, Danfrog's recommendations are correct. I read through the questions/answers too quickly

    I still think that front leg looks off though...
    Hard to tell. In one pic looks okay and the other looks kinda backwards. Petsmart has a 14 day return policy. I bet this froggy can recover and turn into an eating machine!

  11. #10
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    Yeah, probably nothing permanently wrong with the leg... Or at least nothing that will be debilitating. Just watch him carefully as he's moving around and make sure he looks like he's moving it well and it doesn't seem too weak.
    3.0 Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
    1.1 Thamnophis cyrtopsis ocellatus
    0.1 Ceratophrys cranwelli
    1.0 Litoria caerulea
    0.1 Terrapene carolina
    0.1 Python regius
    0.1 Grammostola rosea
    0.0.1 Brachypelma smithi
    0.1 Hogna carolinensis

  12. #11
    Nathan Tetzlaff
    Guest

    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    Kainu7 is my brother, and I'm helping him out with his new frog. I'm a fairly new owner myself. I was lucky to buy a very well-tempered frog who seems laid back and has a very large apatite. He ate as soon as I put him in his cage, despite it being large for his size.

    I figured since this guy looked so thin, though, I'd send my brother her for advice. The frog has a 14-day guarantee on it's health, but we'd really like to keep it and make it healthy. My question is: The frog obviously needs time to adjust before it will feel safe enough to eat. Is the frog dangerously thin to the point of needing to force feed it, or can we afford to give it time to settle, and hopefully start eating on it's own?

  13. #12
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    This is a hard one because you are providing a good home for it; but are starting far behind the goal line. Well, Petsmart does have a return period and that frog is in pretty bad shape, so that is an option as DVirginiana mentioned. You could keep it and hopefully will improve; but it might have suffered permanent damage to it's internal organs. That happens because they are not receiving proper nourishment during a critical stage in life.

    It's probably a Four Spot C. cranwelii and looks a bit like a GA because of malnourishment. GA's hybrids have terrible gene mix and few survive to adulthood; so you do not want that either (even if more valuable). If keeping, get a box of Flukker's Repta Boost. Can dust night crawler pieces with it (can find at Walmart's sports section, get undyed ones). Cut night crawlers from pointy end around the lenght of the frog and offer from tongs by lightly rubbing the frog mouth with piece to elicit a bite. Good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  14. #13

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    Reptaboost is good stuff. Gave some to my adult male and he ACTually went to the other side of his enclosure (he never moves).

  15. #14
    Hypnotic
    Guest

    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    I can tell you this, I bought my Bubba from a pet store about 200KMs from my house, he was malnourished when I got him. The first night I offerd him food, he ate. And he hassn't stopped since.
    My little Bubba misses his right back foot, yet he eats like a vacuum cleaner. But since Bubba misses a leg, he was a little slower then the others and needed tong feeding. 1 week after I bought Bubba he went from malnourished to healthy looking frog and now he's an unstoppable eating machine. (9 medium locusts tonight)

  16. #15
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentat View Post
    You could keep it and hopefully will improve; but it might have suffered permanent damage to it's internal organs. That happens because they are not receiving proper nourishment during a critical stage in life.
    That was my main worry. An adult that looks like that should be able to re-feed, but with one so small and already showing signs of potential MBD the outlook more iffy. Not to say he's definitely a goner, just that there's a risk he's already suffered damage that can't be undone and there's no way to tell other than time.
    3.0 Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
    1.1 Thamnophis cyrtopsis ocellatus
    0.1 Ceratophrys cranwelli
    1.0 Litoria caerulea
    0.1 Terrapene carolina
    0.1 Python regius
    0.1 Grammostola rosea
    0.0.1 Brachypelma smithi
    0.1 Hogna carolinensis

  17. #16
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    OMG.... and that is why pet stores make me very very angry...... i feel like that frog would have died in there in a next few days and you guys have rescued him, I'm sure he is lucky to go home with you and that you try to save him.

    I wouldn't wait until he is settled, it is crucial to get food in him asap, feed him, but small crickets, not pinheads, but he might not be strong enough to eat, you need to react quickly, give him a few crickets and see if he is eating, if not, force feed right away, small piece of nightcrawler coated with reptiboost. cover all sides of the enclosure with something, anything not see through. right now MBD or anything else is not a concern, he needs nutrition asap, everything else can wait a little.
    i would report his state to spca though, it won't change anything but it might force a store managers to think a bit more.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  18. #17
    NialR35
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    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    This baby looks malnourished BUT you can fix that! The most crucial thing right now is feeding, and putting some weight on this baby. Don't give up yet, because if your baby starts eating well then this should be fixed pretty soon and just don't forget to use supplements as soon as your frog already has an eating pattern. He looks so cute though I think it's worth a try to fix this yourself before returning it to petsmart where obviously won't be properly taken care of.

    I would rather feed night crawler chunks at this point because it will really benefit the frog more rather than crickets AND it will be easier to see/feed the frog rather than leaving the crickets running around for a weak/skinny frog to catch. Cut the worms starting from the tail up to the length of the frogs eyes. YOU CAN DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!! just ask us but try to save him please.....at least try your best before using the policy return because if you think about it he just looks malnourished and that could be fixed a lot easier than if your frog had other symptoms/deformities/syndromes and so on.

  19. #18
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    Nightcrawlers would be best if he won't eat on his own. They're soft-bodied so they are much easier to digest.
    3.0 Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis
    1.1 Thamnophis cyrtopsis ocellatus
    0.1 Ceratophrys cranwelli
    1.0 Litoria caerulea
    0.1 Terrapene carolina
    0.1 Python regius
    0.1 Grammostola rosea
    0.0.1 Brachypelma smithi
    0.1 Hogna carolinensis

  20. #19
    Nathan Tetzlaff
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    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    We just fed him! I left him alone in his cage over night, making sure the humidity and temperature were at comfortable levels. Peaking in occasionally, I saw that he had lifted his head above ground as if hunting. Despite this, however, he wouldn't go for the cricket in his enclosure. Today, I took his lid off and pushed a cricket in his direction and he jumped from his burrow and ate it. Encouraged, I cut up small chunks of nightcrawler and got him to take 2 pieces from my tongs. He wouldn't eat anything further, so I put his lid back on and returned him to a quiet area. I didn't dust any of his food though :$ I was just encouraged that he ate the nightcrawler bits, since I know those are very good for him. His stomach doesn't look like it filled out very much, but I'm sure he has a small tummy from not eating

  21. #20
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Concerned with new baby pacman

    If the frog will eat on its own do use appropriately sized pieces of Night Crawler dusted with the Repta Boost to help get this frog back on its feet. It is in pretty bad shape.


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