Questions about the size of enclosure.

[ChasingBike]

Hello,everyone,I am wondering if my enclosure is too big for a baby pacman,(I know baby pacmans would be stressed in this situation).Can I add more living plants as the hidden place to solve this problem?Or should I buy a smaller critter keeper?

[Hypnotic]

Well, we won't know if your enclosure is the right size unless you post the size. Adding plants does not decrease the size, if your terrarium is big enough for an adult pacman, it's too big for a baby and I'd get a critter keeper.
Both my babies are in critter keepers aswell, don't forget to use a nice background to block 3 sides to reduce the baby's stress.
Also, pictures please!

[ChasingBike]

Thanks for you good advice,I raise my baby pacmans in critter keepers as well,I am just wondering if adding more plants in a big enclosure could make the baby feel safe too.The size I am thinking is definitely too big for a baby.

[specialmias]

I figured I'd ask here instead of making a new thread about it. But how does this work? Given that these are basically animals from the wild why would a smaller container make a baby horned frog feel more secure? Is it emulating finding a hiding spot in the wild or something like that?

[danfrog]

At around 3 inches you can move to a ten gallon.

[Truffs1178]

I figured I'd ask here instead of making a new thread about it. But how does this work? Given that these are basically animals from the wild why would a smaller container make a baby horned frog feel more secure? Is it emulating finding a hiding spot in the wild or something like that?

Its because most of these large enclosures are bare. If you have a 100 gallon tank and filled it with loads of plants, places to hide and made it like in the wild they would be happy. They would still feel secure. I don't think some people realise that these frogs once did come from South America which is a bit bigger than a cricket keeper.

[Hypnotic]

Well specialmias, I assume it's for that reason, but it's weird, since even with enough hiding spots offered, the size of the terrarium can still stress a pacman out.
All I know is that when I had my babies in larger spaces, they weren't eating. I was then given advice by GrifTheGreat to move them to critter keepers with sides blocked off with decoration, and they started eating the very same night.
I'm really wondering about something now, what if I would remove 1 of the critter keepers walls and place that in a bigger terrarium, then place the baby inside. Would it still feel safe?
I'm not going to risk stressing my frogs by testing it, but if someone has, I'm very intrested to hear the results, because this could mean if pacmans are offerd a U shape hide, with the top coverd, they feel safe.

Edit: sorry haven't slept yet. Truffs, keep in mind that babies are clumsy hunters, placing them in a large tank with alot of decoration, assuming they refuse tong feeding like mine did, have a small chance to run into prey, make maintenance alot harder then it has to be and I honestly want my frogs to grow as big as they can, I want them to be able to eat daily.
Let's face it, we are allready killing and dusting prey for them, we are even making them poop so what's the harm in a critter keeper if they seem to thrive more in it?

[Truffs1178]

I think it's different for different pacs. My baby used to be in a huge exo terra with tonnes of coverage then someone who I won't say the name of told me to put him in a smaller one because apparently he was stressed. Guess what my pacman has never been the same. He never eats now and it's a real struggle to feed him. Each person has their own view though. I just believe that since they came from the wild at one time it can't be the enclosure size, just it's contents.

[Hypnotic]

Well, I can definately see a valid point in that, and I've seen some enclosures, some people think a small aquarium plant and a piece of cork covers it, but that's not how South America looks.
I think experimentation is something that's really important in our hobby, especially when it comes to enclosures.
But, if I think about it, it might be a problem we as the owners are creating. I can put my girl into any kind of enclosure, she will always eat and show no signs of stress, but my girl has been wild caught and I think that's also a very important difference. Seeing as how most breeders keep them in small containers from birth, and if you place a baby in a giant tank that has lived a life of peace and quiet in a small tank, you'd be stressed too.

[Truffs1178]

I'm not disagreeing with you I'm just saying my opinion. To tackle that obstacle you could just put food in front of it. Eventually something will walk by it or else how do the frogs eat in the wild? Does a giant pair of tongs bring down calcium dusted food for them in the wild? All I know is mine liked the large enclosure with tonnes of plants. Look at this enclosure. If all sides were covered I think a frog would love that. I'm not just talking about pacs here though. Also if they are clumsy in captivity whose to say they are not in the wild?

[Truffs1178]

It doesn't matter anyway. I just know my baby liked the big enclosure because he ate almost daily in there then when he went into a small exo terra he has never eaten properly again.

[Mentat]

Hello,everyone,I am wondering if my enclosure is too big for a baby pacman,(I know baby pacmans would be stressed in this situation).Can I add more living plants as the hidden place to solve this problem?Or should I buy a smaller critter keeper?

What size is frog from snout to vent (SVL) and what size enclosure are we talking about? I find these ExoTerra Breeding Boxes adequate for babies in small size and the 5-7 cm. juvies do well in a medium BB or a foot square ExoTerra small enclosure. To help control temp and humidity you can place the whole Breeding Box inside a ten gallon tank where you will release frog after reaching 8-9 cm. Good luck !

[Hypnotic]

They are also clumsy in the wild, and the enclosure looks great! But in the wild, I'm wondering how many frogs survive from one spawn, counting in canibalism, MBD and all the other factors.
By placing them in small tanks, we are effectively making life easy for them, argueably, maybe too easy.
Howmuch space of the tank you posted did the pacman actually use?

[danfrog]

Can't compare pet frogs with wild frogs. In the wild these frogs have to put up with less than optimal conditions. Thats why the captive frogs live way longer than the wild frogs.

[Truffs1178]

They are also clumsy in the wild, and the enclosure looks great! But in the wild, I'm wondering how many frogs survive from one spawn, counting in canibalism, MBD and all the other factors.
By placing them in small tanks, we are effectively making life easy for them, argueably, maybe too easy.
Howmuch space of the tank you posted did the pacman actually use?

I completely agree about the factors that differ from captive and wild life for the frogs. Btw that's not my tank lol. I was just using it as an example for a tank which looks wild. Sorry for the confusion.

[Truffs1178]

Can't compare pet frogs with wild frogs. In the wild these frogs have to put up with less than optimal conditions. Thats why the captive frogs live way longer than the wild frogs.

Factors like disease, predators, availability of food and parasites come into play there but do you think temp and humidity do? Since they are adapted to live there I wonder if temp and humidity are ever less than optimal or if they are used to it? Hmm I don't know.

[ChasingBike]

What size is frog from snout to vent (SVL) and what size enclosure are we talking about? I find these ExoTerra Breeding Boxes adequate for babies in small size and the 5-7 cm. juvies do well in a medium BB or a foot square ExoTerra small enclosure. To help control temp and humidity you can place the whole Breeding Box inside a ten gallon tank where you will release frog after reaching 8-9 cm. Good luck !

Thanks,and could tell me what size is a 10 gal?Like Xcm,Xcm,Xcm......

[Truffs1178]

Do you have Exo Terras where you live? If so then a 30x30x30cm is good. Be much easier if everyone used the same units of measurement.

[Truffs1178]

By placing them in small tanks, we are effectively making life easy for them, argueably, maybe too easy.
Howmuch space of the tank you posted did the pacman actually use?

This is unbelievable. I had a big tank which I got of a friend and just set that up with plants and stuff and put Citrus in it and he ate without me even tweezer feeding it. I just left a Locust in and it walked by and he ate it. I'm so happy now, I might have my old pacman back. I think that just goes to show it depends on the frog. Mine obviously likes big cages with lots of foliage. Most other people's like small ones. Mines a weird frog.

[ChasingBike]

Thanks,we have exo terras,you mean a 30x30x30cm is big enough for an adult pacman?I have a 45x45x60cm,but I think it is even too big for an adult pacman...I agree with you,different units often make me confused...