URGENT- Sick Golden Bell Frog- HELP NEEDED

[BlueKiwiOca]

Hey everyone,

I've posted a lot in this forum today... possibly due to the arrival of six new, juvenile (maybe 4 month old) Green and Golden Bell frogs.

Anyway, there's one particular frog in the bunch who is very lethargic, has an pinky-red belly (but I might be overreacting and thinking it's Red Leg), and has several times seemed to have seizures almost. He also seems rather bloated.

It's quite distressing to watch; his back legs twitch uncontrollably, his mouth opens and closes in a weird way, his toes curl up and once he ended up on his back in the water pool/ dish... I thought for a few minutes that he was dead, apart from that awful twitching in his limbs. Then five minutes later, he seems to be recovering, albeit still lethargic and weak.

I think the previous owner was feeding undusted mealworms as a staple, which did make me cringe. He was in an Exo-Terra mini/tall terrarium with five other juvenile frogs about 1-3cm long.

As soon as I noticed he seemed poorly I disinfected a plastic fish tank, laid down moist paper towelling (de-chlorinated water), a water dish (also de-chlorinated), and a disinfected artificial plant for cover. I've put him in a dark place, and am about to go cover the sides of the tank. Thanks to other FF users who provided me with the info on setting up a quarantine tank

I'm sixteen, so whatever is wrong with Mr Blobby I don't have the resources at hand right now to help him, but is there anything I can do in the meantime?
Also, does anyone know what he might be afflicted with? MBD and Red Leg spring to mind, but I'm really paranoid lol.

Any help would be much appreciated

[Mentat]

Mmm do keep everything having to do with these 6 frogs away from Froakie and that includes all equipment and your hands (wash well before and after handling anything).

Not sure what frog has; but isolating in hospital is good call. Would try the following treatment for all 6 frogs (do not mix the sick one with the other 5 and do not share anything unless disinfected). Try and get the local version of unflavored Pedialyte (baby electrolyte solution) and prepare a 10% Pedialyte and 90% 27C dechlorinated water for 20 minutes to their chin and see if it helps frog (let us know results). Also get a box of Fluker's Repta-Boost which we will use as part of dusting routine and as a back-up if frog stops eating.

If frog eats (hopefully other 5 do); time to feed all the food frogs will eat. Dust every other feeding with CA/D3 and alternate with dusted Repta-Boost on the other day. Do that to all six for a week and then we can re-evaluate progress.

Red Leg is an acute bacterial disease caused by stress or improper care. It's not easy to diagnose in time to treat; but if they where miss cared for, it's a possibility. Cover 3 sides of all enclosures and avoid disturbing frogs as much as possible other than to treat them. Have read here of a member successfully treating it's frog with daily saline baths (dechlorinated water with aquarium type salt solution at 1 teaspoon per gallon for 15 min.). More info on Red Leg here and please post pics of frog legs if possible: www.froggie.info - Redleg and How to Care for a Sick Frog with Red Leg Disease: 8 Steps.

Hope this get's you started, be patient, frogs take lot of time to recover. Good luck !

[flybyferns]

Hi,

Carlos is a supportive and informative member here on FF , hopefully noted by all !
The pedi soak may do wonders !

Seems you are off to a good start.
Hopefully as things quiet down for them and they are given time to adjust..... the one you're
worried about will come alone nicely.

Repto Boost can be a great product.
As mentioned, re-evaluation is important, as you don't want to over do it.
Use it very carefully for the frog that is "?sick"
It is key to understand that it is a "diet" supplement.
Remember this does not cure a sick frog. It is used when they are not eating ...for supplementation.

It is a "critical care diet" and supportive care diet" used when a frog malnourished ( really skinny ) and dehydrated, recently acquired, to provide an "energy boost"

It is great when one is sure the amphibian was not fed properly.

Believe it or not , frogs that are severely malnourished ( according to the instructions) should only be given 1/2 the dose.

Severely malnourished frogs ( ones that have obvious muscle wasting seen in their limbs and bony spines) may be ill and should really be evaluated by a herp vet.

It would be really helpful if you could post a photo of the frog; as long as you don't stress it more by doing so.

Here is a photo of the package insert from the repta-boost: ( if you should need to call 1-800-735-8537)

click on the photo to enlarge
Read info in Table 1:

Keep us posted
Lynn

[Lija]

so sorry to hear, i see guys have covered already the hospital set up and soaks. i just ask this - do you know where these frogs came from? WC from one place or from different? what you described sounds like toxic out along with red leg (septicemia) very common for frogs living in very crowded cages. i hope he'll pull through.
if i were you i'd separate all frogs in hospital set ups to quarantine each separately. you can make these from a regular plastic containers, very cheap and easy to do.

[BlueKiwiOca]

Thanks everyone for your amazing replies

Just woken up, and Mr Blobby is sitting in the same position on the same leaf of the artificial plant as he was last night... Compare this to the other 5 frogs who were rustling around all night long!

The Pedialyte bath is the easiest thing I can do for Mr Blobby in the meantime, so I'll go out and buy some ASAP. I'll continue to keep the quarantine tank clean and stress-free.

I have a picture of Mr Blobby's underside, it's not the greatest picture but it will do. Last night when he was twitching his belly seemed even redder.


Another thing I forgot to mention is that when he was twitching, his bloated tummy seemed to move to one side..

As for the Repta-Boost, I'll see what I can do about getting some... I doubt the pet shop will have some, but I'll try my best to get hold of some.

Here's a picture of the frog through the wall of the tank..

Went to take the photo, and he's moved off the leaf into the centre of the plant... Not much, but we have movement! he also seems to be less bloated, but it's hard to tell because of the way he's sitting.

All the other frogs seemed to be eating ok, haven't given Mr Blobby a chance yet..

Thank you so much for all your help, you are all wonderful people

[BlueKiwiOca]

Oh, and about the origin of the frogs... Not entirely sure, but they were at a kindergarten before the previous owner, then they came to me. My guess is they were bought as tadpoles and raised as an educational exercise for the little ones, but don't quote me! Just seems like an appropriate thing to do at a kindergarten they seem to be doing better size and weight wise than my frog that I raised from tadpole-hood... Could a diet of mealie worms make them big and comparatively fatter?

[EmJay]

It sounds like you bought the ones in the auction I referred to in an earlier post. They haven't been supplemented at all, have been living on flies, fruit flies, and mealworms, but I don't know in what proportion each type has been available. (As far as I know they just cut a hole in the lid of each feed tub and left the tub in the enclosure, rather than feeding a specific number of critters per feed?) I've heard some litoriae will get lazy and gorge on mealworms rather than chase flies, so that might be part of it. I also didn't see any UV bulbs or heaters on the auction photos, so all of them are probably quite calcium-deficient.

A diet of mealworms will leave them chubby, but malnourished. Also watch for impaction, since the chiton on the mealworm exo-skeleton can apparently build up in their digestive tract and cause constipation, and if it's not fixed, severe intestinal blockage or even death. Maybe a honey bath will help the sick one?

I've looked for Repta-boost and so on in NZ, and not found it yet. Pipe up if you do find a source!

[EmJay]

Oh, also - there were 7 listed in the auction. Did they miscount, or did one die already? If one died, that's more cause for concern and vigilance with the other 6.

There were brown frogs listed in the auction - do you have any idea if they're winter-coloured green & golds (l. aurea), or have you managed to get a couple of brown tree frogs/whistlers (l. ewingii) as well?

[Lija]

Em i was wondering if these are u were asking about earlier, I'm happy BlueKiwiOca came here hope they all are gonna make it.

[BlueKiwiOca]

The next day, when I disinfected the terrarium, I moved them all into a different box to hold them, and thats when I noticed there were only six... Didn't find any frog bodies in the terrarium, but I was going to text the seller about the numbers... It did occur to me that one might have been eaten, but they struggle to eat large mealworms so it seemed unlikely to be honest..

As for the brown frogs, 5/6 are brown! Only one or of the frogs has the distinctive "green and gold" colouring... one other one is gold and green, but most are just a pretty brown-gold colour.. Don't think they're brown tree frogs, I just googled them and they don't look very similar

Turns out NZ doesn't have unflavoured Pedialyte.. only bubblegum >.< anyone got a plan B?

[EmJay]

Also, you may have found this info by now, but the main public exotic vet in Auckland is the Exotic Vet Centre in Lynfield:

122 White Swan Rd, Lynfield
Ph. (09) 626 4335

I don't imagine it will be cheap though...

[EmJay]

As for the brown frogs, 5/6 are brown! Only one or of the frogs has the distinctive "green and gold" colouring... one other one is gold and green, but most are just a pretty brown-gold colour.. Don't think they're brown tree frogs, I just googled them and they don't look very similar

Mine is currently golden-bronze on the "outside" and showing traces of the green on her warm "inside" bits; folds of legs, "armpits", etc. Possibly just winter colouring then, although apparently they can also darken with stress or malnutrition. If it's goldy-bronze and not muddy-brown I wouldn't panic too much (she says, from experience ).

(Edit: Also, I think l. ewingii aren't so common up north.)

Turns out NZ doesn't have unflavoured Pedialyte.. only bubblegum >.< anyone got a plan B?

Try and get verification from someone more experienced than I, but a honey bath? They absorb the sugars through their skin...

[Lija]

try to look for any brand of unflavored electrolyte solution, it might be in powder form and/or called differently, something should be there, it is used for babies and babies are sensitive to coloring/flavors.

[EmJay]

try to look for any brand of unflavored electrolyte solution, it might be in powder form and/or called differently, something should be there, it is used for babies and babies are sensitive to coloring/flavors.

Lija, New Zealand has no where *near* the variety in shops (or online) as North America does... Often you get one or two brands, one or two flavours/types, and that's *it*. And since we (apparently?) don't have the same degree of allergy-prevalence here as many other countries, flavour/colour/allergen-free stuff can be hard to find and sometimes expensive. (As someone with chemical sensitivities that would make a frog proud, I've learned this the hard way!)

I haven't seen unflavoured electrolyte powder recently here at all. BlueKiwiOca, you might have better luck with Enerlyte than Gastrolyte or Pedialyte; that's the only one I've seen in a plain powder, although it's often hard to get. (At least you're in Akl, and not like, Gore or Levin or Katikati or somewhere with even fewer shops! )

[Lija]

i imagine that i meant in pharmacies, your mentioned enerlyte and gastrolyte will most likely do, doesn't matter brand, as long as it is water+ bunch of electrolytes. it is used for babies when they have diarrhea to restore electrolyte balance.

[BlueKiwiOca]

Ugh, this is getting confusing.. Still haven't been able to do anything for Mr Blobby in the meantime, but he's hanging in there and seems to be surviving ok..

So basically any colour-free electrolyte solution? In the meantime, what would a honey bath do? I haven't fed him in a couple of days, I've been scared of stressing him out and numerous other things.

[BlueKiwiOca]

Update: I'm now on my own at home, my parents have gone away, and I haven't gotten around to getting my drivers license yet. Getting what Mr Blobby needs just got 400% harder :'(

It might just be me being optimistic, but he's moving around a bit more, still lethargic, but his colour's improved from a muddy brown to goldy-bronze. I've literally done nothing except keep him in the covered quarantine tank to minimise stress. Still bloated though...

I've gone ahead and put him in a lukewarm honey bath up to his chin... I mixed 1 tbsp honey with 4 cups frog-safe water. He's sitting very happily in there, not trying to escape. Luckily he was sitting on a convenient leaf so I didn't even have to pick him up to put him in let's see what this bath does!

[EmJay]

So basically any colour-free electrolyte solution?

Yes, but good luck on that - I've been looking myself (online and in Henderson), and can't find unflavoured electrolyte solution so far. Four different flavours, but no plain!

I haven't fed him in a couple of days, I've been scared of stressing him out and numerous other things.

They often don't eat for a couple of days after a move, and they can go a week without eating, usually, without harm. You could just offer food, and watch to see if he takes it.

[EmJay]

i imagine that i meant in pharmacies, your mentioned enerlyte and gastrolyte will most likely do, doesn't matter brand, as long as it is water+ bunch of electrolytes. it is used for babies when they have diarrhea to restore electrolyte balance.

I've checked the local pharmacies, plus online pharmacies and supermarkets - apparently the done thing here is to go ahead and fill your babies up with bubblegum and orange flavourings. o.O

I never really thought about it one the rare occasions I've bought orange-flavoured Gastrolyte or whatever in the past... I imagine it would be really difficult for people with food colouring intolerances to try and find electrolyte powders or liquids here.

[Mentat]

Ugh, this is getting confusing.. Still haven't been able to do anything for Mr Blobby in the meantime, but he's hanging in there and seems to be surviving ok...

If you have not located the plain baby electrolyte solution, just offer some food and see if frog will eat .