Baby Wtf seems bloated, lethargic

[Gage]

Hi all,


I have 3 baby WTFs in an enclosure together, and they have all been having diarrhea. I took them in a few weeks ago and got Panacea, which they are now supposedly done with, though they still have diarrhea.
anyway, one of my little guys, who was best off at the beginning of the episode has been seeming a little bloated and lethargic the last few days. I wanted to include pics and get feedback before going to the vet again. I'm low on money and have to be sure it's necessary.





thanks in advance.

Phil E.

[Mentat]

Hi Phil and sorry for your frogs. Could not find any information on the drug you mention (Panacea). Did veterinary ran a fecal exam on each frog and what were the results? Does the bloating feels hard or soft? Also, could you please answer these questions the best you can? Thank you !

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog
16. How long have you owned him/her
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
19. How often the frog is handled
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.

[Lija]

to these questions please answer to the following as well:
- when did you take them to a vet and what tests did s/he run, what were the results.
- panacea, what is it? did you mean panacur? if so what dosage and how frequently did you gave it? and how? what is a course of actions suggested by a vet?
- did you treat each frog separately, did you place them all in separate hospital set ups and disinfect everything every second day or so?
- are they eating now?

[Gage]

Yeah, it should say Panacur. Evidently not in the Android dictionary, even though I corrected it twice before moving on.

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog
16. How long have you owned him/her
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
19. How often the frog is handled
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

[Gage]

Yeah, it should say Panacur. Evidently not in the Android dictionary, even though I corrected it twice before moving on.

1. Size of enclosure
2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
3. Humidity
4. Temperature
5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6. Materials used for substrate
7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
- How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
8. Main food source
9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
10. Lighting
11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12. When is the last time he/she ate
13. Have you found poop lately
14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
15. How old is the frog
16. How long have you owned him/her
17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
19. How often the frog is handled
20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

[flybyferns]

Hi Phil.

Sorry your frogs are not feelying well.

As we await answers to post 3 and 5 :
All three frog should be separated asap into their own hospital tanks.
Your are going to have to set up a frog hospital !
If you can, buy 10 gallon tanks, lids etc....as their recovery could take quite some time.
They may have to be in quarantine for longer than 90 days.

Instructions here:
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-supplies.html
and here:
POLLYWOGS WORLD OF FROGS

Panacur should not be used unless you have a positive fecal exam.
The reason Lija is asking specific questions about the Panacur is because it is prescribed by weight.
If the dose is too high it could be dangerous for the frog.
It has specific instructions depending on which route of administration in which it is used.
I may also need to be repeated?

Confusingly enough, if the frog is under treated it can just make things worse.

Your little guy is most definitely bloated. One or two pedi soaks would likely be ok. ( instruction in the above link)
However, the all need the vet ! Bring fecal samples with you. If they have all been together, without any quarantine period --- they will likely have to ALL be treated.

The diarrhea could be from the Panacur---but it is just as likely it could be something else.
When you go to the vet - be sure to have all the details of the Panacur with you.

In their hospital enclosures, continue to maintain all the proper humidity , temp parameters, and day/night light cycle, naturally. I would get small crickets, and bowl feed them continuing to dust. ( small = easier to digest) Feed them daily for now. Count the crickets each night so you can keep track of what each frog is eating. Return the uneaten crickets back to a bin to gut load. Sorry to say, I believe you should even separate their crickets! Clean the feeder bowls and water dishes everyday with HOT HOT tap water. Either use a new pair of powerless gloves gloves between each enclosure wash your with soap ( rinse well) between care. Friction gets rid of germs !

Talk to you soon,

Lynn

[Gage]

Thank you for the replies.

It looks to me like everything I typed out didn't send when I hit send... I don't know if you saw all of my responses to the questions.

But yes, the Panacur was prescribed by weight, and administered appropriately.

[Lija]

no we didn't.
please when you describe vet test results be specific on what exactly was found? did they check for protozoa as well?

[chefrobert]

This trouble in the I closure stuff is all I see any one post when there is a question. It really is annoying and makes me want to leave this forum

[Lija]

don't quite understand what is annoying for you exactly. Trouble in the enclosure questionnaire is very important diagnostic tool, that is why we constantly asking people to reply to these questions. when something is wrong we need to figure out what exactly and why, so it is possible to fix it and help the frog and in a lot of cases save it.

[kueluck]

Their environment plays a big role in their health. If you want to keep them healthy and happy don't give up on this site. We all love our frogs and just want to help.

This trouble in the I closure stuff is all I see any one post when there is a question. It really is annoying and makes me want to leave this forum

[Mentat]

This trouble in the I closure stuff is all I see any one post when there is a question. It really is annoying and makes me want to leave this forum

Imagine you go to see a doctor when sick and get annoyed when handed a questionnaire upon arrival and threaten to leave the office. Strange as that illusion sounds, you just did the same here .

Those questions were not written to annoy anyone. They were selected to provide a background from where to make proper recommendations to improve a frog's health. And when answered, they are not ignored; but incorporated into the recommendations to issue at hand. It's your choice to answer or not; but be aware that we are no mind readers or clairvoyants in here .

[flybyferns]

This trouble in the I closure stuff is all I see any one post when there is a question. It really is annoying and makes me want to leave this forum

Hi Robert,

Our intent is to gather as much information as quickly as possible about an ill frog or about a member's questions as to how to take care of their frog properly.

Members, come here for help. We jump in as quickly as possible to help a member make necessary changes.
Imagine how many posts - back and forth- members would have to read and type ! to get all those important questions answered.
It would take valuable time. Members would have to wade through man many posts vs getting an answer they may need immediately.

When we try to help a frog we would rather read one post instead of 21 separate posts ( there are 21 questions on the questionnaire )
New members, especially new frog owners, have very good intentions when they decide to purchase a frog.


I'll put it a different way for you.

-may have no experience on how to care for their frog(s) , so sadly the frog begins to decline
-when they go to purchase a frog they have no idea which frog to choose
- they often are not given the proper information or do not read anything before purchasing a frog
- they need information on creating and even finding the perfect enclosure and components needed for the frog's habitat
- they need information as to how to make a frog feel more secure
- they may mix species
-they need support regarding the proper temps and humidity
- thy may never use water conditioning
- they may even think their frog is ill when observing a shed for the first time
- they may never use vitamins or calcium supplements until it's too late

We really don't care if a person makes a mistake, we don't judge. We simply want to help; and as quickly as possible.
If you should have ideas or thoughts regarding faster ways to gather needed information to help a fellow member ( and frog) in need, by all means , please chime in ( on a separate thread, please) as we take pride in collaborating with each other.

This thread should remain Phil's !

Lynn

[Heatheranne]

It truly is a great tool for us who help those in need. Mentat's way of describing it is how I would as well...like a health assessment. The how, what , when, where, why...and how can we fix it or assist in finding someone who can.

Sometimes it's just a matter of education, adjusting their homes or environmental factors such as humidity and temp, decreasing their stress by modification of their homes or providing better shelter, teaching how to provide cleaner homes by improving or modifying husbandry or by creating better drainage and/or filtering, providing better food choices and proper supplements. Newer members might not recognize ailments or diseases until it is too late. We are here to assist. But, we need information to assess the situation so we can intervene and assist quickly. It may mean the difference between saving the frog and not. The trouble in the enclosure sticky is meant to do just that... provide us with the data and quicken our replies.

Remember, we are here to help our members.