I noticed today that Laputa's leg is just dangling and off to the side from her body...when I held her and she moved she could barely keep her leg up with her. I noticed her thigh(?) was kind of bending in the middle... I noticed her thigh was also purple... I think her MBD is getting MUCH worse but I don't know how to her calcium, I'm going to call the doctor first thing Monday. What should I do? Should I put her in a critter carrier so she can't climb very high? How can I get calcium into her? I tried to give her a cricket and she spat it out... Can I drop some liquid calcium onto her? This is becoming very frustrating and heart breaking all in one....
Hi,
Sorry she is still not doing so well.
Try to keep one thread going, as its difficult to go back and forth.
Yes you need to move her into a hospital enclosure.
(very dampened towels and her water dish) de-chlor water -only
Cover the entire enclosure with a towel .
*** maintain the proper temps and humidity for her
I still think she has to go to the vet asap
Let's re-group !!
Please answer:
This will really help us help you ( cut , paste and answer )
Plus some clarification ---- I'm trying hard to get all the details both threads.
1- 6 days ago she had what looked like hiccups ---during a pedi soak
Why were you doing a soak?
2- at that time you mentioned she did not eat for " a few days" ( "no poop " & "no missing food ")
So now -no food on her own for a week?
3-a few days a go -----you "used retiboost"
-have you used it again
- if so when
- has she lost more weight
- if so how much
5- if you have not weighted her --you need to ( use a little food scale)as this is the best way to dose the reptiboost
4- Could she have injured her leg----did she take a big leap? or dangle from branches in an awkward way with her foot still stuck to a leaf?
6- you mentioned you did a fecal - a month ago ?-she was clean ? -
7- at that time ( a month ago ?) the vet "said she showed signs of MBD"
-how did you proceed after that information to correct it
- please give details as to how often you were dusting and product ( specifically ) are you using.
8-a few days ago you mention she look bloated - does she still look bloated to you ?
9- have u used any liquid calcium product - if so what brand and when ?
10- did you get to the vet yesterday?
Some basic husbandry questions : ( a few repeats here, sorry )
I have underlined the questions that are most important
1-size of enclosure
2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?)
3-humidity
4-temp
5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
6-materials used for substrate
7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv
8-main food source
9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often ) what brands
10-lighting
11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
12-when is the last time he ate
13-have you found poop lately
14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine
15- how old is the frog
16-how long have you owned him
17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred
18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats
19- about how often the frog is handled
20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area
21- describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
22- has or was the frog properly quarantined
Current Collection
Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"
Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"
Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"
Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)
Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
Oophaga histrionica "Tado"
Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
Ranitomeya vanzolinii
http://www.fernsfrogs.com
https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs
She scared the **** out of me this morning, it looked like she fell and I thought she was dead...I didn't want to touch her, then I poked her and she twitched. I cried tears of happiness and tears of "she scared the Shyt out of me..."
I know this wasn't a question, but I've made some observations. Since she's been sick, she has been very, very dark brown, when I got her she was bright green and she jumped everywhere, she wasn't clumsy, she didn't slide down the sides of the tank when she climbed / jumped, now she is so clumsy she can't even really jump (she tries with her hurt leg) she can't even stay up on the glass, which is why I think she fell, and she sits squished up against her fake branch I have on two of her walls so she can't slide down.
HI,
I glad to hear she will be going to the vet tomorrow--- she may need to be de-wormed?
Refrain from using anymore Baytril.
Use de-chlorinated water ONLY. ( water dish and paper towels on the bottom of the hospital tank)
She needs to eat . She has gone a long time without food
I would consider force feeding her today -- squish a wingless, legless cricket and mix it with reptiboost.
Or
Soak the prepared cricket in reptiboost and get it in her mouth ---most of the way. She will swallow and do the rest.
Use damped paper towels to hold her. Use a paper business card to get her mouth open.
Set the cricket on the top of the card---then slide it in her mouth. Another set of hands is helpful.
If the cricket dies while doing this --it does not matter.
Keep us posted
Lynn
Current Collection
Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"
Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"
Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"
Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)
Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
Oophaga histrionica "Tado"
Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
Ranitomeya vanzolinii
http://www.fernsfrogs.com
https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs
She hasn't been on Baytril since the first week or so of March, is there something specific I can ask for when I go tomorrow? I know this may sound dumb, but Isn't drinking/purified water that I buy at the store, isn't that dechlorinated? I used to use distilled until I read on here not to use it, so I only use that for my fishies. I did try to feed her a cricket when I did the repiboost on Friday but she actually spat it out after we thought she ate it... I bought a small rubber spatula to use for her mouth since I was really scared to hurt her more with a paper card. can I give her a reptiboost bath? and if I can, what ratio do I use? I really do want to do right with her and I really appreciate the help you've given me!
I did put her in a hospital tank and I put it inside of her terrarium, since that was the best place to keep up the temps, when I left it was 81*F inside her hosp tank. I left a tiny bowl of water and an even tiner bowl of phoenix worms that have been wiggling like crazy. I'm hoping she'll eat those. Can I force feed her a phoenix worm? She'll get more calcium that way... and I have some pretty small ones I can give her.
Hi, I'm trying to sort out this mystery for you as well....
I looked back on your previous posts in regards to Laputa, and all the ups and downs.
The things that stand out to me are the water and the calcium dusting (or lack of calcium dusting). You have never used treated water (as in treated with a water conditioner and de-chlorinator))? Is that correct?
If I read correctly, you didn't start dusting with calcium until a couple weeks ago? You were gut loading your crickets previously, but not dusting. And she's been lethargic lately, and now not eating that much since beginning to dust with cal. I do believe she could be suffering from MBD, what was the vets recomendation other than the UV light? Any calcium shots or drops, special brand of calcium for her feeders?
And you have never used multi-vit? Get a mult i vitamin for her, and dust once per week. Follow Lynn's advice on feeding above.
Why did your vet not prescribe something for the pin worms? Only baytril? I'm confused by that. I'm also confused about the sequence of events in which she was tested and did get a clean fecal, and then later a bad fecal? She should be on a de-wormer for sure.
I think it would be a super good idea, because of the pin worms, to simplify her enclosure.
Use several layers of plain paper towel as substrate (not the substrate carpet your using, as it harbors bacteria and pin worms!)
Clean with very hot water all of her enclosure, water dish, and only one plant - every day! so important.
Get her meds for the worms, ask your vet tomorrow (even if you don't have a fecal by tomorrow for him/her to test). Dust her feeders and feed as lynn described, if she won't eat on her own. Dust with panacur according to the vet instructions.
This is gonna be a long haul, I'm sorry to say. You're gonna have to be patient and consistent in her care.
1.1.0 White's Treefrog
1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog
I'm sorry, i was typing when you left this post, so I missed osme of this information... sorry!
bottled water is not guaranteed to not have chlorine, chloramines in it. You still need to use the water conditioner. It's cheeper to use a water conditioner, de-chlorinatoer and tap water than it is to buy bottled water. And it's better for her.
It's good your not using distelled. But now that I know you were, that is another cause of MBD, it was draining all of her minerels in her body. By the way, the distilled water isn't good for fish either.
I would stay away from the phoenix worms for now, and use the reptiboost to dust small crickets only if you need to force feed. Or even if she's free feeding. Als use calcium every day for now and multi-vitamin once per week. I think she's severely malnourished and needs extra calcium. Phoenix worms are hard to digest, I hear. And if she's not well, that could cause a whole other slew of problems.
A repti-boost bath is a good idea.
Use pedialyte solution (1 part to 10 parts water) and add one of the little scoops full of repti-boost. Use treated water for the bath, and make sure it's fairly warm and not too deep. Soak her about 10 mins, then soak her in a warm clean treated water bath to rinse her. This could give her the nutrients she needs to begin eating on her own again.
1.1.0 White's Treefrog
1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog
1. You can use a britta filter or bottled filtered water, and add the water conditioner/de-chlorinator. OR, you could by 100% spring water and use that.
2. It's my understanding that the UV us not enough, you may need to force feed her dusted crickets, or repti-boost dusted crickets. And yes, add a multi-vitamin. Repti-boost has everything she needs, so don't ever mix the powders. Repti-boost alone, calcium alone, and multi-vitamin alone- on separate days.
3. I think you need anew vet! Baytril will not treat pin worms, and they do not go away in 2 weeks, it generally takes at least 4 weeks. Ask your vet for Panacur C (it comes in liquad or powder).
4. If you're gonna use the carpet, make sure you wash it every day. I like paper towels, it was easier for me when I went through a similar ordeal. I just threw them away and replaced everyday, after cleaning the frogs enclosure.
1.1.0 White's Treefrog
1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog
Hi,
your question:
I know this may sound dumb, but Isn't drinking/purified water that I buy at the store, isn't that de-chlorinated?
sorry , it's not
use for instance : amphibian safe de-chlorinater such as :
Exo Terra Reptile Aquatize Water Conditioner 3.3oz on eBay!
I do not think she should be fed phoenix worms ----they are very difficult to digest!
please review: post # 4
>Use de-chlorinated water ONLY. ( in her water dish and the paper towels on the bottom of the hospital tank)
She needs to eat . She has gone a long time without food
I would consider force feeding her today -- squish a wingless, legless cricket and mix it with reptiboost.
Or
Soak the prepared cricket in reptiboost and get it in her mouth ---most of the way. She will swallow and do the rest.
Use damped paper towels to hold her. Use a paper business card to get her mouth open.
Set the cricket on the top of the card---then slide it in her mouth. Another set of hands is helpful.
If the cricket dies while doing this --it does not matter.>
I hope all goes well
Please keep us posted
Lynn
Current Collection
Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"
Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"
Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"
Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)
Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
Oophaga histrionica "Tado"
Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
Ranitomeya vanzolinii
http://www.fernsfrogs.com
https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs
So, Successful feeding tonight. Oh boy did she fight me on this one. I managed to force feed her 2 reptiboost covered crickets, which she CONTINUOUSLY kept trying to spit it out, she'd push it out and I'd have to be right there and push it back in. She looked like she had a hard time swallowing the cricket, but she managed to eat 2. Should I feed her some calcium covered crickets tomorrow? I know that it is incredibly stressful for her to be force fed, but I will do it for as long as I need to. I'll keep you posted on the vet tomorrow, and let you know what he says. I'll pick up some water conditioner too.
Hi
I'm glad to hear you got food into her.
Let her digest this meal. Hopefully she poops for you.
Make arrangements to return ( another day ) with the fecal sample if you are not able to have with you for the visit today.
Keep the temps perfect which will help her digestion
She does not have to eat again today
However her calcium and vitamin needs have to be addressed
Discuss ?MBD, correction if diagnosed, which product to use and how often. etc. .........tomorrow.
Careful... you don't want to over use the reptiboost. I can't imagine that malnutrition is her problem, as she was eating up to a week ago.
If there is MBD? discuss the use dusting ( * frequency) of the Rep cal
Purchase a vitamin supplement or a combined product such as.
Rapashy !
Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL SALES :: By Product Name :: Calcium Plus :: Calcium Plus 4 oz BAG - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center
Water:
imperative to start to use the Aquatize
Get advice using ANY liquid Ca products, as well as the evaluation of the need to do so.
This product id available:
Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL SALES :: By Product Name :: RescueCal Plus :: RescueCal + 150g BAG - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center
IT SHOULD BE USED UNDER THE SUPERVISION OF A VET !
You could print this and bring it with you.
Or , is MBD is severe enough an injection could be given by the vet?
Try to leave her alone as much as possible.
Provide complete darkness at night. Continue to cover three sides of the enclosure
Continue to dust -with calcium -the appropriate size crickets every night and put them in her bowl and one or two on the floor of the hospital tank.
Provide leaf cover
and a clean water dish w/ de-chlor water only
The Aqautize is easy - it is 8 drops from the container per gallon---save a gallon water container
You can re-fill the container right form the tap
Use the de-chlor water to dampen her paper towels as well.
While she is out of her regular enclosure
disinfect the carpet
either dispose of it
or
Soak the 'carpet' in HOT water and a few drops of bleach NO SOAP of any kind !
RINSE the carpet for a long time and then soak it in a clean container with water and plenty a of drops of aquatize to get rid of the bleach
Plan to change the substrate and clean or discard the plants like the carpet RINSE RINSE RINSE and soak in Aquatize
These carpets need to be maintain like this on a regular basis !
while the substrate is out:
Wipe down the walls and the floor of the of the tank the following way:
Ask the vet for ONE 250 mg tablet of Metronidizole. It's cheap-- they should give it to you.
Break the tablet in the 4 equal pcs. Put 1/4 of the tablet into a spray bottle ( ie 18 ounces )w/ distilled water.
Spray and wipe down the interior of her regular enclosure including the cleaned plastic plants.
Dry the spray w/ clean paper towels
If it's damp in some areas -- it's ok -- just let it air dry.
Good luck
Lynn
Current Collection
Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"
Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"
Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"
Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)
Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
Oophaga histrionica "Tado"
Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
Ranitomeya vanzolinii
http://www.fernsfrogs.com
https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs
Alright, so the vet squeezed me in once I told them I thought her leg was broken. Didn't even have to wait very long too. Her weight is 13g, down from 16 when I took her 2 months ago. He did inform me that he did use Panacur last time for the worms, and he did give her some more. He thinks that since she had nothing but pinworms last time that maybe some were in her muscles and seaped out after the others were gone. She does infact have a broken leg
Attachment 53470Attachment 53471
He told me if her bones were large enough he could stick a pin in and set it, but since she is so tiny, she will just have to heal on her own. He did say her bones look great so I guess that's a plus (besides the broken one). I did pick up some water treatment stuff
Tetrafauna AquaSafe Water Conditioner - Sale - Fish - PetSmart
It says to do 10ml per 10gal, so if I get the go ahead, I'll do some water.
Sorry to hear about her leg poor baby.
I'm afraid I cannot advise you on the Tetrafauna AquaSafe Water Conditioner as I do not use that product.
Perhaps someone does.
As mentioned, I use Aquatize ( exo terra product ) which is specifically for frogs. Prior to Aquatize I used Amgel.
Just be sure it states it is safe for frogs !
I hope she is feeling better soon.
Lynn
Current Collection
Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"
Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"
Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"
Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)
Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
Oophaga histrionica "Tado"
Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
Ranitomeya vanzolinii
http://www.fernsfrogs.com
https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs
Ah, so sad! Any idea what caused the broken leg? Did the vet advise you to keep her in a small enclosure to limit climbing until she heals? How long should it take?
How was the panacur given?
Keep up with the feeding advice. since she ate for you last night, you don't need to force feed her tonight. But still offer crickets in a bowl, dusted with the calcium.
What did the vet say about the possible MBD?
The tetrafauna Aqua safe is perfectly fine to use, glad you picked some up right away.
Good luck and keep us posted of her progress!
1.1.0 White's Treefrog
1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog
Thank you Lynn for all your help! I know it will be a long haul with her. Thanks for helping through it!
He didn't advise me on how long it would take to heal. I think it depends on how much I restrict her from climbing and everything. He said that if she doesn't do a whole lot of this to begin with then I can leave her in the medium sized critter container. I moved her to the small one with a water dish to be sure. I DID ask him about MBD and he said her bones looked fine.. He said that it was just luck that broke her leg. I'm not sure if it was me that did it or if she caught it on a leaf, but he said thats what it came down to. He said since her metabolism was really slow that the water I put with calcium was doing ok since they absorb through their skin and since I feed the crickets with the calcium stuff. He did recommend that I put really fine ground tums in with the reptiboost to help her with calcium intake. Should I still do her pedi soak or just leave her for tonight? She's already gone through a lot. poor baby
Is there anything I can do for her for the pain? I can't imagine she feels wonderful..
I guess they didn't load but here are some pics I thought everyone would like to see!
ouch, that is a bad one, especially for a tree frog so sorry, poor Laputa... need to go back and read everything carefully to advise.
you gotta set up hospital set up with covered all 4 sides and top with wet papertowels.
at that point I would do undiluted pedyalyte soaks with added liquid ca, i would suggest to get repashy rescue cal. that stuff is the best. for those not eating powdered crickets all you need to do is to expand water gel crystals with that stuff and use it for crickets.
what was vet's problem with UVB exactly? you need UVB at least 2.0 for a smaller tank.
Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!
Is doing an undiluted pedialye soak ok to do? I don't want to shock her especially if she is very malnourished. I'm not sure how big of a thing it is, but she did loose 3g in 2 months... I'ved mixed tums in with the cricket food, the doc did advise that. My Boyfriend will be out and about tomorrow, and I know PetCo sells some of the repashy stuff, so I'll have him look for it
The problem the vet had with my UV light was I was using the Reptiglo 5.0 but I had it going through the side of the tank. I had the light facing into the glass vs on top for a bout a month. I switched to the compact Reptisun 5.0, which I've heard really good things about the reptisun so I was happy with that.
Laputa left me a surprise this morning! Never felt so glAd to see poo. I think she laid in it all night since it was a little smeary. I put 3 tiny crickets in her hospital tank, she didn't eat any but I did see her sitting in her water bowl so I know she got some calcium in there. Is it possible to buy the liquid vitamins for reptiles and use that every other day? I figure if she can get calcium this way why not vitamins too? I will feed her multivitamin crickets tonight.
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