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Thread: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

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    Default Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    Hey.

    I'm concerned that one of my frogs is sick. I got home today and he was sitting in the corner under where he sleeps. His eyes were a lifeless ivory instead of yellow and I had thought he'd fallen and broken his back. However, he was breathing and when I went to pick him up he moved slightly. He starte jumping around in the bucket, so let him go back in the terrarium. I saw him sitting on the hygrometer later - he usually sits there for a while. I was surprised to see him on the ground once more later on. Just then he was climbing the glass back to the hygrometer. I looked away and heard a thud. I believe he fell again.

    Nothing seems to be wrong, but I think I saw his hind leg as a little swollen. I wasn't sure though. He keeps going back into the water.

    I'm a bit annoyed, because I had bought an Exo Terra waterfall and it leaked all over my new substrate. I was meaning to buy some new new substrate today as it's all soggy. It's been like it 2-3 days but there are dry spots for them. I hope that didn't make him sick and there's no bacteria from the wet substrate yet. I can't believe I forgot to buy it....

    Two nights ago he was sleeping atop a log which is unusual for him. He usually sleeps in his corner. Excessively. As far as I know he's always been a sleepy head. That having been said, he is fairly active when he's not sleeping.

    Anything I should keep an eye on? I don't have a quarantine terrarium yet. First thing tomorrow morning I'm getting new substrate.

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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderSil View Post
    Hey.

    I'm concerned that one of my frogs is sick. I got home today and he was sitting in the corner under where he sleeps. His eyes were a lifeless ivory instead of yellow and I had thought he'd fallen and broken his back. However, he was breathing and when I went to pick him up he moved slightly. He starte jumping around in the bucket, so let him go back in the terrarium. I saw him sitting on the hygrometer later - he usually sits there for a while. I was surprised to see him on the ground once more later on. Just then he was climbing the glass back to the hygrometer. I looked away and heard a thud. I believe he fell again.

    Nothing seems to be wrong, but I think I saw his hind leg as a little swollen. I wasn't sure though. He keeps going back into the water.

    I'm a bit annoyed, because I had bought an Exo Terra waterfall and it leaked all over my new substrate. I was meaning to buy some new new substrate today as it's all soggy. It's been like it 2-3 days but there are dry spots for them. I hope that didn't make him sick and there's no bacteria from the wet substrate yet. I can't believe I forgot to buy it....

    Two nights ago he was sleeping atop a log which is unusual for him. He usually sleeps in his corner. Excessively. As far as I know he's always been a sleepy head. That having been said, he is fairly active when he's not sleeping.

    Anything I should keep an eye on? I don't have a quarantine terrarium yet. First thing tomorrow morning I'm getting new substrate.
    He just fell again . What do I do, put him in the feeder/transport bucket in the terrarium for the night? I don't want him to hurt himself.

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    100+ Post Member Louis Charles Bruckner's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    Sorry to hear that your baby is not well,

    Lets get some basic info here to help,
    Answer the questions listed below.
    1-size of enclosure
    2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?)
    3-humidity
    4-temp
    5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
    6-materials used for substrate
    7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv
    8-main food source
    9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often )
    10-lighting
    11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    12-when is the last time he ate
    13-have you found poop lately
    14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine
    15- how old is the frog
    16-how long have you owned him
    17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats
    19- about how often the frog is handled
    20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area
    21- describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
    22- has or was the frog properly quarantined




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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Charles Bruckner View Post
    Sorry to hear that your baby is not well,

    Lets get some basic info here to help,
    Answer the questions listed below.
    1-size of enclosure
    2-# on inhabitants - specifically ( if there is another frog ---size differences ?)
    3-humidity
    4-temp
    5-water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
    6-materials used for substrate
    7-enclosure set up i.e. plants( live or artificial) wood, bark etc -how were things prepared prior to being put into the viv
    8-main food source
    9-vitamins and calcium ? ( how often )
    10-lighting
    11-what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    12-when is the last time he ate
    13-have you found poop lately
    14-a pic would be great ( including the frog ) any little cell phone pic is fine
    15- how old is the frog
    16-how long have you owned him
    17- is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    18- frog food- how often and if its diverse what other feeders are used as treats
    19- about how often the frog is handled
    20-is the enclosure is kept in a high or low traffic area
    21- describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
    22- has or was the frog properly quarantined

    Woops, forgot the checklist:

    I've had these guys 2 weeks

    1 Enclosure, huge. 3fx2fx2f with only 4 frogs
    2 Two frogs are much larger, one the same size. I'm awaiting a new enclosure for the little dude. To the best of my knowledge they've been housed together forever.
    3 humidity, a bit low. Currently 45.
    4. Temp, been struggling with trashy weather lately. I'm trying to make sure it stays above 20 C. It should be in the White's Tree Frog range but sometime's I'e noticed at 17 C. At which point I turn on a heater. As far as I know, the previous owners had it the same.
    5. Misting, bottled spring water (haen't misted much due to soggy ground). Water for bowl and previously waterfall was tap water treated with some Zoo Med (?) frog and reptile dechlorinator.
    6. Substrate coir, I have a tiny corner with sphagnum moss. I hae put paper towel under a hide cave for them so it's dry.
    7. Artificial plants. Admittedly I only rinsed one of them twice which may have been a mistake. I let it sit over night in water and washed it. There is a hollow tree stump that was in there when I got it. It's been there ages.
    8 Food - crickets that they hunt. I am going to buy some worms or woodies tomorrow for them and I need to do a calcium dusting for them. Previous owners fed them moths occasionally and gave them a varied diet. Not sure if they gave them calcium.
    9. I intend to give them vitamins and calcium once a week. I didn't last week as they were stressed by the move and I thought shoving tongs in their faces would be too much.
    10. Full spectrum exo terra light with UV.
    11. Heat lamp. I'm going to ask the former owner when he bought it tomorrow and replace it if needed. If not buy a heat mat or something.
    12. I'm not sure when I saw him eating. He's in with other frogs. I think I saw him eat the day before yesterday.
    13. I've found poop, but not sure if his.
    15. He's at the oldest 3.
    16. Two weeks.
    17. I believe captive.
    18. At the moment just crickets, this week I'm giving them something else. I tried giving them silk worms last week but they wouldn't eat them.
    19. I try to avoid handling. Today and yesterday I had to though.
    20. High traffic area. It's in my room. I've been avoiding the area during the day so they can sleep. At night I keep noise to a minimum.
    21. I've been changing the water daily. Today I didn't change it but it wasn't that bad and I got back from being out when they were active and in the water. I decided to change the water in the evening just before they woke up so as not to disturb them. I've been cleaning up poop every day. When I got them I cleaned the plants and rocks in there except the log.
    22. Yes.

    I did remove the large water dish in there as it didn't fit in the tank properly and it disturbed them to take it out. Changing water and cleaning it was near impossible. I now believe this frog is not the sleeping one, but my hiding frog who always seeks cover to sleep. He had hid under that dish. Could he be lacking Vitamin D from hiding all the time?

    The other Gillens Tree Frog has gained weight since I got them, this one hasn't. I think he was a darker colour until this week. He's now a lot lighter of green.


    The former owner was too sick to take care of them properly. The glass was a bit dirty, the substrate was old and there was heaps of poop not picked up. Especially under the pond where this guy hid. Come to think of it, if it *is* this one, he hasn't been much of a climber in the past. He just likes hiding.

    I'm trying to set up a steady on/off schedule for lighting but I was a bit off today. There are changes in light at night due to location and me trying to check the thermometer. I keep these to a minimum but my mother isn't that mindful.

    The former owner was a smoker. I wondered if they could get addicted to that seeming as they'd absorb it :/....

    EDIT: He's jumping about fine it seems. He just can't climb and keeps falling.
    EDIT EDIT: Should I put him in the feeding tub with dusted crickets?

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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    Looking back at photos his colour has definitely changed the past few days. I had thought it was natural colour change because the Gillens are usually green.

    Name:  Maverick3.jpg
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    The first one was last week. Note he's brown and sitting on top of the other. The second was yesterday (green).

    I thought it was the other not climbing well because the frog I found in the corner was brown. Then I found the sleeping one in the cave the active one uses. They're trying to befuddle me.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    Good news. After about 30 failed attempts at climbing he found his way up the glass and managed to sleep there. Today coming down took him a bit of effort but he climbed back up after a few attempts (and fell down after an hour or so. An improvement). However, the the female White's is having climbing issues/acting oddly. I've noticed her looking as if she wants to climb the glass but not putting much effort into it - front legs and one back leg up. I hadn't thought much of it because I had seen her sleeping in on the glass for short amounts of time and believed she willingly came back down. After this event last night with Maverick (the Gillens) falling backwards it seems maybe something is wrong with them. She has her head down and I've noticed her head burrowing into the ground. I think it's stress though as I noticed this behaviour both times I changed the substrate and she has done the yawning on both occasions. She's no where near as energetic as Maverick, who I'm rather convinced drinks Red Bull...


    I'm going to hope it's nothing but them being stressed from all the stuff that's been happening in their tank lately (malfunction after malfunction).

    EDIT: Just found my female White's Tree Frog burrowing. What in the world is going on? Is it because she can't climb? Is she too cold? Is it her stress/trying to hide? Does she need a larger water dish or something (she had a large pool but I had to swap in a smaller one)? I am so confused right now. I'm just going to leave her to it and sleep. I tried Google searching for this but found nothing. Maverick keeps falling down occassionally still. He's energetic though, thankfully.

    She has been eating. Saw her eat last night.

    Could someone help?

    So... Confused.....
    Last edited by CommanderSil; September 19th, 2013 at 08:12 AM. Reason: No-one likes a triple poster

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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    Hello and welcome to FF! The temperature you are keeping these frogs is too low! Please read this article about the White's care; imagine the Gillen's care is similar if not the same: Frog Forum - White's Tree Frog Care - Litoria caerulea .

    If you got the dechlorinator together with frogs; recommend replacing it with new one. Myself prefer Seachem's Prime or ExoTerra Aquatize; but any without aloe should do.

    It's normal for Litoria gilleni to bury during day; but it should be able to climb while hunting for food. What water you used to mix the substrate initially? Also, check the "Spring" water source to ensure it's pure spring without additives.

    Other than the low temps (please correct ASAP), something appears to be troubling frogs nerve or muscular system, sadly can't pinpoint the cause yet. Good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    I've been trying to increase the temperature. I was looking at a higher wattage globe and a thermostat, but I'm going to have to order that online because the shops are too expensive.

    Are there any temporary things I can do to increase the temp? I've covered the sides with blankets when it's really bad and used a little portable heater. Getting it above 20 is hard though :/...

    I think they weren't kept at the right temp all of their lives - otherwise the set up would be better. I'm intending to fix this.

    It was one of the White's that was burrying, not a Gillens....

    The spring water has no additives and I bought the dechlorinator seperate.
    So, she's now managed to get into a sleeping corner. I might clean a large stick and see if they will sleep on it so they don't have these issues.

    I never mixed the substrate with water. Was I supposed to do so? It came damp and it said nothing about mixing on it.


    The terrarium is 3fx2fx2f. It has a 60 W ceramic globe and the temperature can get down to 15C without intervention. Should I increase to a 75W with a thermostat or would a 100W with thermostat work better? It's been storming here but not really cold. So come winter it'll probably be worse. On the other hand, summer's soon and I imagine I'd need some way to cool them down.

    Could I heat the substrate or is it better the get a stronger globe?

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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    One of my White's tree frogs has turned grey. Is that normal or is it stress related? He burrowed yesterday and today he was hiding. Very unusual behaviour for him - he's always sleeping up on a magnetic rock or in a corner. He's hiding under some fake foliage now. Again, weird. He's not a hider. I gave him a little soak in warm honey water and he seemed to go a little green again. Now he's back to being dark grey. I know reddish brown is natural, but grey? It makes him seem more ill to me. His hop isn't as strong either. Yesterday he was making insane leaps and hanging off a fake fern like King Kong. Perfectly healthy.

    I decided to give the female a soak in another batch warm honey water and she enjoyed it. Yesterday she was absolutely dreadful, she had slid down the terrarium from her resting place and she had her white opaque eyelids half closed. She didn't move at all until a while after I picked her up out of concern (she'd been there for quite some time). She's looking better today and was a bit more active. The Gillen's I was worried about is climbing better. He was able to climb quickly up the back of the terrarium instead of needing a corner. He's still slipping down but he's doing better/not slipping while climbing. In fact, after this affair he's climbing more than he ever has before!

    It seems to be a bug that's gone around the inhabitants but the first two affected have fought it off. One seems to not have caught it and I hope he doesn't - he's the least active.

    I'm going to cover the front (only exposed side of their enclosure) again tomorrow and if they're still not doing too well on Wednesday I'll get a vet to do a check up on them. Better safe than sorry and then I can find out about any issues they may have. Definitely asking about their climbing.

    The two Gillens haven't had a soak and I might put them both in tomorrow just in case. Also getting them a treat food.

    I bought a new portable heater and got some thicker curtains. Their temperature is around 23 C now (Huzzah!).


    I still have no clue what's been wrong but they seem to be getting better. Could be because I'm not checking up on them so much as I know they can handle falling that far. Seriously, once you've seen your smallest frog drop from 91cm high well over 20 times in a row nothing they do will phase you. I guess most new owners stress frogs out and get stressed.

    Thanks, everyone!

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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    If ordering on the net and can't trade; the 100W might be a better option. If from store, can try 60W and if it does not work; trade up to a 100W ceramic emitter.

    Taking frogs to veterinary is a good idea. I would definitely stop using that spring water and instead use dechlorinated tap. Could you please tell us the brand of substrate you are using? Only forms of shredded coco that know of, come in solid dry bricks or loose dry bags.

    From symptoms you are describing, appears there is something toxic or maybe a virus, affecting frogs physiological process. Also, although in same genus and similar; there is possibility that being a different species, these frogs secretions are chronically toxic to each other and should be housed separate. Good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentat View Post
    If ordering on the net and can't trade; the 100W might be a better option. If from store, can try 60W and if it does not work; trade up to a 100W ceramic emitter.

    Taking frogs to veterinary is a good idea. I would definitely stop using that spring water and instead use dechlorinated tap. Could you please tell us the brand of substrate you are using? Only forms of shredded coco that know of, come in solid dry bricks or loose dry bags.

    From symptoms you are describing, appears there is something toxic or maybe a virus, affecting frogs physiological process. Also, although in same genus and similar; there is possibility that being a different species, these frogs secretions are chronically toxic to each other and should be housed separate. Good luck !
    I haven't used the bottled water for anything recently other than misting. On the label it doesn't have anything bad for frogs in it. The tap water here has so much junk in it. If I drink it it makes me sick. Even dechlorinated. I'm potentially more sensitive than frogs with all my allergies....

    I'm using Kritters Crumble coir as substrate. It's partially damp when bought.

    I've bought a new terrarium off ebay. Awaiting arrival and subsequent cleaning.

    My boy's back to a healthy green and he's croaking to my music and game. Maybe grey's in his spectrum - if so, cool! He's not hiding any more.

    Seeming as 60W is keeping the temp too low I'll go for a black ceramic 100W. I don't want to put it in without a thermostat though. Weather here's crazy (spring) so it may be hot tomorrow and a new globe would over heat them.

    The girl is starting to sleep on the terrarium walls again . Only the boy isn't.


    I'm doubtful it's toxins - they've lived together quite some time and this has occurred suddenly. Probably a virus.

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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    Would not discount toxins, sometimes they slowly build up in an organism liver and then become a problem.

    Kritters Crumble appears to be made of coco; but not sure from pics if finely shredded or if it still has chunks. If it does, it's an impaction hazard.

    The issue with some bottled water is not that they have bad stuff in them; but that processing removes so much mineral content, the water becomes bad to frog as R/O or distilled water are. If you have a good dechlorinator (Seachem's Prime, ExoTerra Aquatize, or similar) that will remove chloramines and heavy metals, treated tap will be fine. If concerned you can double dose it. Good luck !
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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    Default Re: Gillens Tree Frog Falling off Walls

    As I said, I had only used the bottled stuff for misting - much more convient .

    It's very fine and designed for frogs/reptiles. They've been pooping the normal amount so no impaction there hahah.

    Thanks for everything. Fingers crossed it's all going to be resolved soon. So happy that girl's sleeping on the terrarium wall again and the Gillens I was concerned about has figured out how to climb across the wall to sleep on a magnetic rock. The boy should pull through fairly well because he's the most normal of the lot - he lives with sleepyhead, Mr. Hyperactive and the Collossal Girl XD. It's 3 AM and he's still awake while everyone else is sleeping (unless he was sleep croaking. I'd think were he really sick he wouldn't do his 3 AM call.

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