please help! ADF not sure if shes sick or not

[ybarros02]

Her name is Gamakichi (I assumed she was male at first so the name stays) I've had her for only two weeks. She's also the first adf i've ever owned. when I got her she didnt have that pink tint she has now and she wasn't eating so i tried giving her frozen bloodworms but they were a bad batch because not only did it make her turn red it made chunky (my betta) sick as well he was very bloated and his eyes turned red. so i opted out with blood worms and i wont be trying that again.. so if anyone can help me it would be much appreciated thanks!

[Mentat]

Hello and welcome to FF! How is frog doing today? Is it active and eating? How about the betta? Where bloodworms nice & red with a "bloody" smell to them or did they smell rotten? For your info; bloodworms are used in the fish hobby to increase the red pigmentation in show cichlids, so becoming reddish could be a normal result after feeding of bloodworms.

First thing to do is read this and see if you can improve any enclosure parameters: http://www.frogforum.net/care-sheet-...warf-frog.html. Also, if frog is not eating (usual first sign something is wrong); please answer these questions as best as you can to try and pinpoint the issue on hand:

1. Size of enclosure

2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences

3. Humidity

4. Temperature

5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish

6. Materials used for substrate

7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials. - How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.

8. Main food source

9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)

10. Lighting

11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure

12. When is the last time he/she ate

13. Have you found poop lately

14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)

15. How old is the frog

16. How long have you owned him/her

17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred

18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats

19. How often the frog is handled

20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area

21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

I have not kept ADFs, but the information will help ID any problems and get experienced keepers something to work out of. Good luck !

[ybarros02]

Hi Carlos! I'm going to try to answer these questions as best as I can but I appreciate your interest and help and I want to thank you.

1. I keep Gamakichi in a 10 gallon tank (20.25 in W x 15 in H x 10.5 in D)

2. Along with gamakichi I have a male betta and 2 snails

3. I'm not sure what the humidity is being that they are submerged in water

4. I keep the temperature at 75 degrees fahrenheit

5. Their tank water is tap water that i have conditioned with API Stress Coat fish and tap water conditioner

6. The substrate i use are medium sized rocks/gravel

7. In the tank I have a Buddha statue a small house a betta hammock a moss ball and three bamboo sticks and a reptile food bowl where i try and put her food in and an air pump that goes along the backside if the tank

8. For Gamakichi I feed her Top Fin pellets but The other food that goes in the tank are the API Algae wafers, for my snails, that I have caught Gamakichi eating and i'm not sure if that's a bad thing ? and I feed Aqueon Betta food to my betta.

9. As for calcium and vitamins I don't give them any extra than what is contained in their food

10. I use an incandescent lighting I can't remember the wattage off the top of my head

11. I bought a Top Fin submersible aquarium heater 25W.

12. I can't say when was the last time she ate because i haven't seen her eat much i saw her nibble on the algae wafer on Sunday 5/5/13

13. I'm not even sure what their poop even looks like I've never seen her go potty or noticed it

14. Right now I don't have a picture of the enclosure but I will be sure to post one up later today.

15. I'm not sure of her age she's pretty small so i'm assuming she's still a baby or really sick :/

16. I have officially owned her for two weeks today 5/7/13

17. I bought her at Petsmart

18. Her food source is Top Fin Pellets twice a day and I tried blood worms once and it made her and my betta sick.

19. I never hold her

20. The tank is kept in my room there's really no one that goes in there accept for myself and occasionally my mom

21. I got my tank the same day as i got her so I've done two partial water changes so far. I have a Grreat Choice internal power filter for 10/20 gallon tanks.

[Mentat]

...
4. I keep the temperature at 75 degrees fahrenheit
Would bring up to 79-80F.

5. Their tank water is tap water that i have conditioned with API Stress Coat fish and tap water conditioner
Stress Coat has aloe vera and I'm not an enthusiast of it in fish or frog environments. Suggest replace it with plain dechlorinator (i.e. Seachem Prime) at your convenience.

6. The substrate i use are medium sized rocks/gravel
If the smaller pieces fit inside frog mouth and frog feeds off bottom; that is an impaction risk. Substrate should be either very fine (sugar sized) sand or pebbles your frog can't eat (like the larger ones in tank).

7. In the tank I have a Buddha statue a small house a betta hammock a moss ball and three bamboo sticks and a reptile food bowl where i try and put her food in and an air pump that goes along the backside if the tank
Between filter and air pump you have lots of water movement in there. Both ADF and Betta's like little to no movement. Recommend remove air pump for set-up and just run filter. Also, make sure frog can't get stuck (and drown) in any decor.

8. For Gamakichi I feed her Top Fin pellets but The other food that goes in the tank are the API Algae wafers, for my snails, that I have caught Gamakichi eating and i'm not sure if that's a bad thing ? and I feed Aqueon Betta food to my betta.
If frog continues to ignore the Top Fin pellets after doing the recommended changes maybe could try other brands. Read here Tetra's Frog Reptomin was good. If Gamakichi is feeding from the spirulina wafers that is OK and possibly tells us it does not like those Top Fin pellets.

12. I can't say when was the last time she ate because i haven't seen her eat much i saw her nibble on the algae wafer on Sunday 5/5/13
See no. 8.

18. Her food source is Top Fin Pellets twice a day and I tried blood worms once and it made her and my betta sick.
See no. 8. Unless they smell rotten, not sure frozen BW made them sick.

21. I got my tank the same day as i got her so I've done two partial water changes so far. I have a Grreat Choice internal power filter for 10/20 gallon tanks.
If your tank is 2 weeks old it's still cycling and will cycle itself in around 30 days from set-up. During the stabilization period the Ammonia will peak and then go down and then Nitrites will peak. Then both Ammonia and Nitrite will reach zero and your tank is cycled. Your frog, fish, and snails have/are exposed to those bad chemicals; so observe it daily and note any changes in eating, swimming or pooping behavior. During this time you can do normal weekly water changes and clean the filter media in tank water (never wash filter media or gravel in tap water). A small gravel cleaner will work wonders to clean substrate. Then can use water collected in pail (new pail not used for house cleaning) to clean/rinse filter media. Recommend not using ammonia removing media or liquids because they will sequester too much Ammonia from tank and will start a yo-yo effect that will make the process much longer.

Wow, sorry, forgot the questions were written for terrestrial set-up and some make no sense ! Went ahead and answered some I knew and hopefully someone else will provide more ideas later. Here is some more info for you: In Depth Information on Common Aquatic Clawed Frogs. Good luck and let us know how the feeding goes .

[ybarros02]

But if i use the sand wouldn't she eat that by accident while she eats the regular food? the rocks aren't small enough to get in her mouth these are the same rocks that i bought

[Geoff]

Your photos show a typical, newly-acquired, very young, under-fed and emaciated frog. If it were mine I'd provide it with a constant supply of live food if possible such as bloodworms, Daphnia, Tubifex worms etc.. If it was not possible to obtain live food then I'd feed it frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp from a reliable source. I would not use frozen food that had thawed out and then been refrozen. Any redness you can see in your frog is probably just the haemoglobin from the bloodworms.

Although there's some controversy amongst fishkeepers about the wisdom of feeding bloodworms, they're only likely to pose a serious threat to small fish that cannot digest or excrete the chitin, which the bloodworms' exoskeleton is made up of. I kept Hymenochirus frogs for around 20 years and never experienced any problems feeding them bloodworms and neither did anyone else I knew personally who kept them.

Don't worry about your frog swallowing stones or sand. It will distinguish what's edible and will expel what's not.

[ybarros02]

Your photos show a typical, newly-acquired, very young, under-fed and emaciated frog. If it were mine I'd provide it with a constant supply of live food if possible such as bloodworms, Daphnia, Tubifex worms etc.. If it was not possible to obtain live food then I'd feed it frozen bloodworms and brine shrimp from a reliable source. I would not use frozen food that had thawed out and then been refrozen. Any redness you can see in your frog is probably just the haemoglobin from the bloodworms.

Although there's some controversy amongst fishkeepers about the wisdom of feeding bloodworms, they're only likely to pose a serious threat to small fish that cannot digest or excrete the chitin, which the bloodworms' exoskeleton is made up of. I kept Hymenochirus frogs for around 20 years and never experienced any problems feeding them bloodworms and neither did anyone else I knew personally who kept them.

Don't worry about your frog swallowing stones or sand. It will distinguish what's edible and will expel what's not.

Thank you for the advice im going to see if i can get some live food for her because those first frozen bloodworms i bought were definitely rotten and im not sure what a "reliable" source for frozen blood worms would be so i would prefer to get live worms and try my luck out there it also doesn't help that im at work most days from 6am to 8 pm so they dont eat for like 14 hours straight i also realized she doesnt eat the food until it softens up which by that point, according to fish enthusiasts, i have to remove that wasted food from the tank due to the harm it causes

[mpmistr]

Thank you for the advice im going to see if i can get some live food for her because those first frozen bloodworms i bought were definitely rotten and im not sure what a "reliable" source for frozen blood worms would be so i would prefer to get live worms and try my luck out there it also doesn't help that im at work most days from 6am to 8 pm so they dont eat for like 14 hours straight i also realized she doesnt eat the food until it softens up which by that point, according to fish enthusiasts, i have to remove that wasted food from the tank due to the harm it causes

What brand of 'bloodworm' did you get? There is a little bit of conflicting information when it comes to purchasing these actually.

Bloodworms aren't worms at all, they're midge larvae and are usually sold frozen.

Live 'bloodworms' sold in pet shops are usually black worms (closely related to a tubifex worm) and are a good food source however do be careful with them because they are known contain leeches in their cultures. I know that sounds kind of crazy but it's sadly true. Now the good news is these leeches are mostly detritus feeders and not blood suckers, but I was never able to confirm if they would feed on blood if they had to! A lot of conflicting information about different species of leeches unfortunately.

I know about leeches in black worm cultures first hand because I started to find leeches in my tank. I removed some by hand and I think my ACF devoured the rest.. I did a total break down and I know they're all gone now but for a long time I was freaked out.

I would recommend Hikari brand bloodworms if you can find them, I've fed them before without any issue. The lower end stuff would be San Francisco brand, some may disagree but I've found their wet/frozen foods to be of lower quality. Your frog would also enjoy Mysis shrimp (freshwater brine), go with PE brand for Mysis, it's good stuff.

[Mentat]

But if i use the sand wouldn't she eat that by accident while she eats the regular food? the rocks aren't small enough to get in her mouth... these are the same rocks that i bought

Sugar sized sand is very small and will pass through digestive system. If gravel pieces are larger than frog mouth you are fine. Good luck !

[Geoff]

Thank you for the advice im going to see if i can get some live food for her because those first frozen bloodworms i bought were definitely rotten and im not sure what a "reliable" source for frozen blood worms would be so i would prefer to get live worms and try my luck out there it also doesn't help that im at work most days from 6am to 8 pm so they dont eat for like 14 hours straight i also realized she doesnt eat the food until it softens up which by that point, according to fish enthusiasts, i have to remove that wasted food from the tank due to the harm it causes

The reason I emphasised a "reliable" source was because I assumed from your post that you'd been sold a bad batch. Just to clarify, when I refer to bloodworms, I'm refering to Chironomid larvae.

If you do have to use frozen cubes, get a sharp knife and slice off a small portion. Put it in the tank whilst it's still frozen and press on it with your finger against the front glass so that it sinks as a clump at the front of the tank where you can see it. The frog will eventually smell it and find it. To prevent the fish from eating it, feed the frog when the tank's in darkness. A turkey baster is a useful tool to suck up any food that's been left uneaten.

[ybarros02]

What brand of 'bloodworm' did you get? There is a little bit of conflicting information when it comes to purchasing these actually.

Bloodworms aren't worms at all, they're midge larvae and are usually sold frozen.

Live 'bloodworms' sold in pet shops are usually black worms (closely related to a tubifex worm) and are a good food source however do be careful with them because they are known contain leeches in their cultures. I know that sounds kind of crazy but it's sadly true. Now the good news is these leeches are mostly detritus feeders and not blood suckers, but I was never able to confirm if they would feed on blood if they had to! A lot of conflicting information about different species of leeches unfortunately.

I know about leeches in black worm cultures first hand because I started to find leeches in my tank. I removed some by hand and I think my ACF devoured the rest.. I did a total break down and I know they're all gone now but for a long time I was freaked out.

I would recommend Hikari brand bloodworms if you can find them, I've fed them before without any issue. The lower end stuff would be San Francisco brand, some may disagree but I've found their wet/frozen foods to be of lower quality. Your frog would also enjoy Mysis shrimp (freshwater brine), go with PE brand for Mysis, it's good stuff.

To answer your question Michael when i bought the frozen bloodworms i bought the hikari brand in petsmart and my theory is that it thawed out too much by the time i got home and threw it in the freezer or when they were delivered they were re-frozen and sold to me but they didnt smell rotten they just smelled like blood. And I think im going to stay away from worms in general especially now that you told me leeches are involved and knowing my luck .. they will appear -__- i have to see what my options are and quickly before she becomes even more malnourished D:! but thank you for the information i have a lot to consider now

[ybarros02]

The reason I emphasised a "reliable" source was because I assumed from your post that you'd been sold a bad batch. Just to clarify, when I refer to bloodworms, I'm refering to Chironomid larvae.

If you do have to use frozen cubes, get a sharp knife and slice off a small portion. Put it in the tank whilst it's still frozen and press on it with your finger against the front glass so that it sinks as a clump at the front of the tank where you can see it. The frog will eventually smell it and find it. To prevent the fish from eating it, feed the frog when the tank's in darkness. A turkey baster is a useful tool to suck up any food that's been left uneaten.

I do use a turkey baster and i was told when i bought the worms to let them defrost in a small dish with the same water that was in the tank then to put it all in the tank together but my betta was interfering with my feeding so i was giving it to her directly with tweezers she didnt eat any more than 2 so i took the rest out and this is when the whole mess started