I'm getting a 50G tank, how many frogs can I have in there? Can I add any fish in there?

[Astyanax]

Hey there,


I'm getting this tank:

Cabinet Aquarium Fish Tank Tropical 100cm 200L New | eBay

I have a cycled tank waiting, so that when it arrives I can seed my new tank, more on that later though.

I've read that the norm is 10G per frog, so by that logic, could I fit in five frogs. However, I've also read that with a larger thank, you can add one or two more.

Will 7 frogs be excessive? I have access to albino X.L and another one that is similar, silurana or something like that.

Also, I think that having a tank full of frogs may be a bit too extreme. Even though these frogs will eventually eat any fish they can fit in their mouth, are there any fish at all that can be put in there? How about very fast, small fish? Tetras, Neons? They're cheap and easy to replace (I would never want them to die purposefully)



A few questions on the exchange of media from one tank to the other. I'm not really sure how the bacteria works out of the water, so bare with me here.

In my current cycled tank, I have a few decorations and two filters (and the substrate of course). Now my question is, how do I seed my tank? How do I exchange the bacteria?

Do I already fill my water then quickly put my cycled filter into the new water? Or do I simply put the media from my old filter into the new one?

I'm going to put aquarium sand in the new tank, but my old tank has a lot of good bacteria on the substrate, anything I can do here?

Thanks for any help

[Jenste]

Hey there,


I'm getting this tank:

Cabinet Aquarium Fish Tank Tropical 100cm 200L New | eBay Gorgeous!!!

I have a cycled tank waiting, so that when it arrives I can seed my new tank, more on that later though. Smart.

I've read that the norm is 10G per frog, so by that logic, could I fit in five frogs. However, I've also read that with a larger thank, you can add one or two more.

Will 7 frogs be excessive? I have access to albino X.L and another one that is similar, silurana or something like that. I would feel comfortable with 7-8 frogs in this set up. Silurana Tropicalis need water temps averaging warmer than Laevis and there is always the risk of a chubby female Laevis making a meal of the smaller Silurana. I have been able to keep both species together in a large tank set to 75*F, but I was always ready with other large tanks standing by at a moment's notice. I might recommend sticking to just making a colony of Laevis and setting the tank up around their requirements.

Also, I think that having a tank full of frogs may be a bit too extreme. Even though these frogs will eventually eat any fish they can fit in their mouth, are there any fish at all that can be put in there? How about very fast, small fish? Tetras, Neons? They're cheap and easy to replace (I would never want them to die purposefully) You don't want to just think about them being cheap/easy to replace. You want to think of the well being of both species. Never mind that the neons may not actually be a suitable diet for the frogs. They (any fish) will need their own quarantine period in a separate system from the frogs to make sure they are not ill. One ill fish can infect an entire system and you do not want the frogs eating unhealthy food! Also, training them to hunt for food will make keeping a smaller species like Silurana even more risky. If it fits, I will eat it rule!



A few questions on the exchange of media from one tank to the other. I'm not really sure how the bacteria works out of the water, so bare with me here.

In my current cycled tank, I have a few decorations and two filters (and the substrate of course). Now my question is, how do I seed my tank? How do I exchange the bacteria? Are you taking down the current tank and moving everything into the new tank or are you going to be running both and splitting up the filters? How is the current tank running right now? Are there fish in it or just an empty tank with two filters running on it? How have you cycled the filters?

Do I already fill my water then quickly put my cycled filter into the new water? Or do I simply put the media from my old filter into the new one? Fill the new tank with fresh water and move the media into the new filtration system. Water does not cycle so you want to focus on the filter and the media themselves.

I'm going to put aquarium sand in the new tank, but my old tank has a lot of good bacteria on the substrate, anything I can do here? While there is some beneficial bacteria in the substrate, MOST is in the filter media and in the actual filter housing and hoses. You will only be losing a fraction of bacteria in the gravel so don't worry about it.

Thanks for any help

​And last but not least, welcome!

[mpmistr]

In my experience with keeping frogs and fish?

The frogs will hunt them and the fish will eventually get sloppy. Even if the fish is a fast moving top dwelling species, eventually the fish HAS to rest.. they go into a state of lethargy and just drift.. some times at the bottom of the tank. This is usually when X. Laevis 'cleans house'. So yeah.. I wouldn't really bother unless you want to feed your frogs fish of course.

[Astyanax]

In my experience with keeping frogs and fish?

The frogs will hunt them and the fish will eventually get sloppy. Even if the fish is a fast moving top dwelling species, eventually the fish HAS to rest.. they go into a state of lethargy and just drift.. some times at the bottom of the tank. This is usually when X. Laevis 'cleans house'. So yeah.. I wouldn't really bother unless you want to feed your frogs fish of course.

Thanks for the input, what a shame. I'll do some more research and I'll make up my mind after that.

What about fish that are bigger than the frogs but not big enough to eat them? Discus, Angel fish? I have no idea, but would larger non-aggressive fish be ok?

[Jenste]

Have you ever kept discus? They are a very high maintenance fish and I do not recommend them AT ALL with ACF. Their temperature requirements is only the first of many reasons why they won't work. They are also very shy/skittish and a big boisterous frog bouncing around will not work with them.

The long flowing fins of the angels will be all too tempting for the frogs and you do not want to see a frog latched on and being dragged around by a distressed angel.

Your best bet is to dedicate the tank to the frogs. Fish is hit and miss even with those who have been keeping both for a long time.

Goldfish *can* work but you have to buy a goldfish larger than your frogs so it is always too large to eat. Also, only buy a "fancy" (double tail fin instead of the single tail fin) so that it is not going to out grow your tank. I say this as only a last resort if you truly want fish but I recommend doing extensive research as there are many types of fancy goldfish and you have to make sure you can meet their requirements as well as the frogs harmonious. Goldfish, even the smallest of fancies, will grow 8+ inches and live many many years so this is going to be a large commitment. It will also reduce the amount of frogs you can keep (if planning 7-8 frogs, take out 2 frogs for each goldfish).

[Astyanax]

Thanks for your post, very informative!

I'll touch upon a few issues that I didn't explain:

1)My tank is a 14G tall, it had two goldfish (better than the bowl they were in before I saved them). One of the goldfish is in the pond, but the second one, is of sentimental value, and my family wants to keep him in the house, so he'll be staying in the tank until further notice. This tank is established and it has two filters (I knew I'd be seeding a bigger tank). One of them will be kept in the tank and another will be put into the new tank to seed it. Do I just put the media in, or the whole filter? I have two filters so I don't mind just putting the whole one in while it seeds.

Thanks!

----- If you read the ebay page, you can see all of the details of the tank, like the filter (900l/h)------------------

[Jenste]

With such a small tank, (the 14 gallon) what filters do you have running on it? The waste of one goldfish will have established a small bacteria colony which will obviously have to grow to accommodate a larger colony of frogs. The bacteria colony on the media only grows as large as the waste sustaining it.

What type of goldfish is it? Even for a fancy 14 gallons is not large enough. They need at least a 20-30 gallon tank as a minimum for one goldfish.

[Astyanax]

With such a small tank, (the 14 gallon) what filters do you have running on it? The waste of one goldfish will have established a small bacteria colony which will obviously have to grow to accommodate a larger colony of frogs. The bacteria colony on the media only grows as large as the waste sustaining it.

What type of goldfish is it? Even for a fancy 14 gallons is not large enough. They need at least a 20-30 gallon tank as a minimum for one goldfish.

I know, but I have no other option. I've tried to convince my family to let it go into the pond, but they want to have it in the house, no matter what. So it's either that or it goes back into the kitchen where it was in a 3g tank with three other goldfish.

It's a fancy one, it has two tails like you described. I have two filters in the tank at the moment, a Stingray and a Fluvial small

[Jenste]

Having it with the frogs may be more humane then.

When the tank first arrives, set it up, move both filters over and add the goldfish to the 50 gallon. The 14 gallon will be great to have on hand as a quarantine and hospital tank.

[Astyanax]

Having it with the frogs may be more humane then.

When the tank first arrives, set it up, move both filters over and add the goldfish to the 50 gallon. The 14 gallon will be great to have on hand as a quarantine and hospital tank.

Yes, that may probably be the best option then. I'll still have to convince my family though, they wanted my old tank in the living room. It won't fit in my room after the big one gets here.

What do I do about feeding? The fish is much quicker and therefore it may eat more food than it should/ lowly starve my frogs.

I don't really want to handfeed 5 frogs +, two is hard enough!

[Mentat]

Hello! Jen and Michael already provided sound advice; but would like to add some info based on my 51 year long fish keeping experience. Fish and frogs eat each other in nature; mix them in a tank and it becomes an experiment until one does the other. From your fish choice proposals (Discus, Angels, Neon Tetras) it tells me they are based on looks and not of knowledge of the species and it's requirements. Good that you ask here because none of those would work. My recommendation is not to keep fish with frogs.

If using as feeders: set-up a Molly breading tank; quarantine parents and do anti-parasite treatments on them; feed them spirulina based foods; and then feed the grown babies to frogs. Before they are eaten you will have "fish in your tank."

Ammonia/Nitrite reducing bacteria populate surfaces. So you will have them mostly in substrate, the filter's pads and bio-media. You can rinse out the pads in tank water and re-use them in new filter if they fit. Or you can rinse bio-media same way and move that into new filter with new pad. This will leave pad in previous filter with new bio-media. Until you have new substrate seeded (2-4 weeks depending if you add bacteria to tank or not); do not replace any filter pads or bio-media. Just rinse in tank water and re-use. As Jen explained, that bio-media bacteria culture has adjusted itself to your goldfish needs. It will take time for it to adjust to your frogs. Adding them in stages is the smart thing to do. If you add all frogs at same time the filter will need more time to adjust and most probable your frogs will get an Ammonia spike followed by a long term Nitrite bath... not healthy at all .

In terms of bacteria loss, you can expect negligible loses during media cleaning and transfer unless you let it dry out. If tank's pH vary more than 0.2 units you could have more severe bacteria loses and even crash the bio-filter if there are major differences. Also, would recommend new tank matches old tank temp during filter set-up and then set up/turn on any heaters in new tank if required.

Finally, how long is your fancy goldfish (mouth to end of tailbone - do not include tail fin)? Reason I'm asking is because if it has not severely outgrown the 14 gal.; he is better being left in there. Last thing you want at the moment is that "Murphy's Law Strikes" and the loved by your family goldfish gets sick or dies. Trust me, that would create a problem for you and the frogs! Good luck !

[Astyanax]

Hello! Jen and Michael already provided sound advice; but would like to add some info based on my 51 year long fish keeping experience. Fish and frogs eat each other in nature; mix them in a tank and it becomes an experiment until one does the other. From your fish choice proposals (Discus, Angels, Neon Tetras) it tells me they are based on looks and not of knowledge of the species and it's requirements. Good that you ask here because none of those would work. My recommendation is not to keep fish with frogs.

Thanks for the reply. I'll admit that the discus and anglefish was mentioned for purely hypothetical reasons, I had no real intention or did I think of getting one beforehand. Those popped to mind, and I gave them merely as examples. If I was going to put a fish in, I'd make sure that I did all the necessary research anyway.

If using as feeders: set-up a Molly breading tank; quarantine parents and do anti-parasite treatments on them; feed them spirulina based foods; and then feed the grown babies to frogs. Before they are eaten you will have "fish in your tank."

I don't think I'll be feeding them love fish yet. I'm looking into breeding my own earthworms though.


Ammonia/Nitrite reducing bacteria populate surfaces. So you will have them mostly in substrate, the filter's pads and bio-media. You can rinse out the pads in tank water and re-use them in new filter if they fit. Or you can rinse bio-media same way and move that into new filter with new pad. This will leave pad in previous filter with new bio-media. Until you have new substrate seeded (2-4 weeks depending if you add bacteria to tank or not); do not replace any filter pads or bio-media. Just rinse in tank water and re-use. As Jen explained, that bio-media bacteria culture has adjusted itself to your goldfish needs. It will take time for it to adjust to your frogs. Adding them in stages is the smart thing to do. If you add all frogs at same time the filter will need more time to adjust and most probable your frogs will get an Ammonia spike followed by a long term Nitrite bath... not healthy at all .


Yes, I was never going to add all frogs at once, that would indeed create a horrible ammonia spike. I'm getting two X.Tropicalis (1inch), I don't think that will drastically overload the system. Once everything is stable, I'll get two more and leave it as such for a month or two. Thanks on the tips about the media, I'll make sure to put them into the new system and see how it goes.

In terms of bacteria loss, you can expect negligible loses during media cleaning and transfer unless you let it dry out. If tank's pH vary more than 0.2 units you could have more severe bacteria loses and even crash the bio-filter if there are major differences. Also, would recommend new tank matches old tank temp during filter set-up and then set up/turn on any heaters in new tank if required.

That's good news, it will be exposed to the air for about thirty seconds before going into the new tank. I'll keep on the look out for my pH Lvls.

Finally, how long is your fancy goldfish (mouth to end of tailbone - do not include tail fin)? Reason I'm asking is because if it has not severely outgrown the 14 gal.; he is better being left in there. Last thing you want at the moment is that "Murphy's Law Strikes" and the loved by your family goldfish gets sick or dies. Trust me, that would create a problem for you and the frogs! Good luck !

The reason why I'm not panicking about him is because he is still very small (2.5inch, 3 at max) and the tank is almost filled to the top. So he has 60L to himself at the moment. If I see he's getting bigger, I'll try to convince everybody that he needs to go into the pond.