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Thread: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

  1. #1
    100+ Post Member yoshimi's Avatar
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    Question What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

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    These 2 were alive when I spotted them, but if they didn't die in that tub, they're dying in the freezer right now. What happened to them? Looks like tumors and they were super skinny. The others in the cup look fat and fine. I'm freaked cuz this was the cup I've been feeding from. The other cup has an egg or two in it, and no sickly looking worms. Things die, but what's with the bulges?
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    Rest in peace my sweet Ukulele 01/29/14

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  3. #2
    Moderator Mentat's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

    I'm not sure what the bulges are; but have seen them before. Bought couple hundred once (1/2 cost of buying by dozen) and kept them in refrigerator. After a few weeks worms started going downhill and many exhibited those bulges and red bruised areas on them. Discarded all abnormal ones just in case and eventually lost like a third of them .
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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    100+ Post Member yoshimi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mentat View Post
    I'm not sure what the bulges are; but have seen them before. Bought couple hundred once (1/2 cost of buying by dozen) and kept them in refrigerator. After a few weeks worms started going downhill and many exhibited those bulges and red bruised areas on them. Discarded all abnormal ones just in case and eventually lost like a third of them .
    I don't love that answer, makes me think it's some disease... but i'm glad someone said something. These have been out of the fridge for a while now. After you got rid of the bad looking ones (I did that too), did the third that you lost develop these same bulges and skinny out?
    "We like our choruses sung together, we like our arms in our brother's arms...
    We sing with our heroes 33 rpm, we're never goin home until the sun says we're finished,
    and I'll love you forever if I ever love at all,
    wild hearts..."
    1.2.0 Felis Catus - "Zoey" "Mouse" "Casey"(step-cat)
    0.1.0 B. a. americanus - "Banjo"
    1.0.0 Myotis lucifugus - "Fiendly" rest in peace, buddy. 06/15/13
    Rest in peace my sweet Ukulele 01/29/14

  5. #4
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshimi View Post
    I don't love that answer, makes me think it's some disease... but i'm glad someone said something. These have been out of the fridge for a while now. After you got rid of the bad looking ones (I did that too), did the third that you lost develop these same bulges and skinny out?
    Could it have been too dry ---at some point ?
    Could the bulges have been injuries?
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    Default Re: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

    Quote Originally Posted by yoshimi View Post
    ... After you got rid of the bad looking ones (I did that too), did the third that you lost develop these same bulges and skinny out?
    Yes, some did. Maybe the problem was already in the soil and I did not change it out .
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

  7. #6
    100+ Post Member yoshimi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

    Quote Originally Posted by flybyferns View Post
    Could it have been too dry ?
    Could the bulges have been injuries?
    I mist with treated water when it looks dry. The soil they were in looked old, like kind of rocky. I thought maybe they had tried to eat a piece but the bubbles don't look dark. Those pics were actually the best the soil had looked in a while. Not sure how they could get injured in there by themselves. Unless I was a little heavy handed with tongs... I don't think so but you never know. I could've gone for one and had it pull away, hurting it, then just chose another instead. They were so starkly different in weight than the others.
    I ended up mixing the 2 cups, dirt and all. That probably wasn't smart, but I kind of want to see what happens. Next cup of worms I buy will come from the walmart that sold me the good fresh cup, not the walmart where I had to root around to find ones that weren't dead and moldy. Should've walked away right there, but the ones I picked out looked fine until today.
    If I changed the soil, maybe from my backyard, perhaps I can save them. But I don't think I'll feel comfortable feeding them to Banjo. She wouldn't eat today, AND I found these. Bad morning.

    * at some point, like when they were in the cooler at walmart, yes definitely too dry. I handed the really bad cups to an employee who happened to be there making a key for someone, but they could've wound up back in the cooler for all I know.
    "We like our choruses sung together, we like our arms in our brother's arms...
    We sing with our heroes 33 rpm, we're never goin home until the sun says we're finished,
    and I'll love you forever if I ever love at all,
    wild hearts..."
    1.2.0 Felis Catus - "Zoey" "Mouse" "Casey"(step-cat)
    0.1.0 B. a. americanus - "Banjo"
    1.0.0 Myotis lucifugus - "Fiendly" rest in peace, buddy. 06/15/13
    Rest in peace my sweet Ukulele 01/29/14

  8. #7
    100+ Post Member yoshimi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

    Just dug through my tub of worms (carefully), and threw away any large dirt chunks and some twigs and bark that shouldn't really be in there. Found at least 2 eggs. And the remaining worms look fine. Misted a little, put the tub in a cooler in my kitchen, cuz my other theory was that they got too hot, in the same room with my roaches. That doesn't hold up tho, since Carlos said he had his in the fridge. Cup says 38 to 70F tho and they could've easily gotten over 70, even in the foam cooler. Maybe. Those eggs have piqued my interest.
    "We like our choruses sung together, we like our arms in our brother's arms...
    We sing with our heroes 33 rpm, we're never goin home until the sun says we're finished,
    and I'll love you forever if I ever love at all,
    wild hearts..."
    1.2.0 Felis Catus - "Zoey" "Mouse" "Casey"(step-cat)
    0.1.0 B. a. americanus - "Banjo"
    1.0.0 Myotis lucifugus - "Fiendly" rest in peace, buddy. 06/15/13
    Rest in peace my sweet Ukulele 01/29/14

  9. #8
    100+ Post Member yoshimi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

    Looked at worms again today, and a couple had what looked like fungal spots. Didn't look good, and didn't wash off. No mold in the dirt, so I don't know, but that's that. Toad is still not eating, but even if she was, she wouldn't get any of these. Out in the backyard they'll go. Maybe the healthy ones will have a chance out there.
    "We like our choruses sung together, we like our arms in our brother's arms...
    We sing with our heroes 33 rpm, we're never goin home until the sun says we're finished,
    and I'll love you forever if I ever love at all,
    wild hearts..."
    1.2.0 Felis Catus - "Zoey" "Mouse" "Casey"(step-cat)
    0.1.0 B. a. americanus - "Banjo"
    1.0.0 Myotis lucifugus - "Fiendly" rest in peace, buddy. 06/15/13
    Rest in peace my sweet Ukulele 01/29/14

  10. #9
    fish4all
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    Default Re: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

    Check the pH of the soil if you can. Take some of the soil and soak it in a small amount of water and test it with a liquid regent kit. From what I have read acidic soil can cause ruptures and tumor looking injuries.
    Too warm can harm them also and I have seen regular earthworms rupture when they get stuck out of the ground and the sun hits them.

    38F seems really cold for Europeans also. Everything I have read has the proper temp between 50F and 80F with both ends being extreme and not to be held there for too long.
    Raising European Nightcrawlers

  11. #10
    100+ Post Member yoshimi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

    Quote Originally Posted by fish4all View Post
    Check the pH of the soil if you can. Take some of the soil and soak it in a small amount of water and test it with a liquid regent kit. From what I have read acidic soil can cause ruptures and tumor looking injuries.
    Too warm can harm them also and I have seen regular earthworms rupture when they get stuck out of the ground and the sun hits them.

    38F seems really cold for Europeans also. Everything I have read has the proper temp between 50F and 80F with both ends being extreme and not to be held there for too long.
    Raising European Nightcrawlers
    Already tossed them out, and I think it's rained since then. As for temp, since they're meant for fish bait, maybe that's an ok temp for a short while. They were in a fridge when I bought them, and I had them in the fridge for a while, in butter dish on door. The ones that never really looked bad spent the longest time in the fridge, because I had them for the most time. The 1st cup I bought had the best looking moss, and worm eggs, and for that reason I held onto them and was feeding her mostly out of other cups right up until they started looking like that. They all spent some time in their cups in a styrofoam cooler in the same room I breed roaches, but not near a heat source, so I doubt they ever hit 80.
    Froze every worm that looked unhealthy, but mixing them in a bigger tub was an obvious mistake cuz I had to toss out the whole lot, when I saw the spots on them the next day. Spots on worms, no mold in dirt. The pH being too acidic sounds plausible.
    Unfortunately, I don't know what harm the worms from that cup have done to my toad. She ate one just 5 days ago, before they showed symptoms, and now she's not the hungry little bugger she was.
    "We like our choruses sung together, we like our arms in our brother's arms...
    We sing with our heroes 33 rpm, we're never goin home until the sun says we're finished,
    and I'll love you forever if I ever love at all,
    wild hearts..."
    1.2.0 Felis Catus - "Zoey" "Mouse" "Casey"(step-cat)
    0.1.0 B. a. americanus - "Banjo"
    1.0.0 Myotis lucifugus - "Fiendly" rest in peace, buddy. 06/15/13
    Rest in peace my sweet Ukulele 01/29/14

  12. #11
    fish4all
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    Default Re: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

    For your toad, maybe the worm left a bad taste with her and you might want to try something else. My Garter snake once stopped eating slugs for 2 month when it regurgitated a large slug. After a couple weeks of feedings on worms it went back to eating slugs again.

  13. #12
    100+ Post Member yoshimi's Avatar
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    Default Re: What happened to these worms? (european nightcrawlers looking all messed up)

    Quote Originally Posted by fish4all View Post
    For your toad, maybe the worm left a bad taste with her and you might want to try something else. My Garter snake once stopped eating slugs for 2 month when it regurgitated a large slug. After a couple weeks of feedings on worms it went back to eating slugs again.
    I hope so! She stuck her tongue out but missed when I was dumping the worms (took her with me for some sunshine, fresh air, and exercise), then ate one roach. That's been it. For about 5 days, one roach, and some skin (shed).
    So today I set my adult crickets free. Even tho there were only 8, the boys in the group haven't shut up since they matured. Right around the time she stopped eating. Small apt so maybe it was bothering her. If I was always smelling cake but never got any, I'd get kinda mad after a while. Long shot, but they were annoying me, too. Saved the dirt cup I'd given them to lay eggs in, but let them go. Auditory relief.
    "We like our choruses sung together, we like our arms in our brother's arms...
    We sing with our heroes 33 rpm, we're never goin home until the sun says we're finished,
    and I'll love you forever if I ever love at all,
    wild hearts..."
    1.2.0 Felis Catus - "Zoey" "Mouse" "Casey"(step-cat)
    0.1.0 B. a. americanus - "Banjo"
    1.0.0 Myotis lucifugus - "Fiendly" rest in peace, buddy. 06/15/13
    Rest in peace my sweet Ukulele 01/29/14

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