I agree with Carlos. Sometimes mysterious things happen?
Can you post a picture of the frogs and the enclosure?
1.1.0 White's Treefrog
1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog
Thanks guys for responding :-)
Sorry for your frog's death This may sound like a silly question... But did you mix the reptivite and water and try to feed that to the frog by itself as a sort of supplement? I've heard of calcium overdoses causing seizures in frogs before. I'm probably misreading that though :P
Hm... This is almost definitely not the cause for the frog's death, but you may want to consider removing the snail for both its sake and the remaining frogs. Snails and frogs both secrete mucous and toxins from their skin that could be irritating. They also absorb chemicals through the skin very easily. Even if they live together in the wild, they wouldn't be as likely to come into contact with these toxins on a regular basis (thinking of a story where someone was having problems partly due to housing a giant land snail in a tank with a frog.)
Also, can you post a picture of your tank? It sounds like it'd be interesting looking.
my thought was that since the frog as already of ill health, that if the water was not dechlorinated, that actually ingesting it could have caused the seizure and death. unfortunately, i do know enough about frog biology to know if that is even possible. or as D mentioned, maybe due to it's poor health to begin with, a calcium overdose caused it, which sounds much more feasible than my train of thought.
1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
0.2.0 Canines
1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
0.1.0 Bed Bully
Hello,
Very sorry to hear about your frog
I wanted to share this information with you.
Saurian Enterprises, Inc :: Calcium Deficiency in Dart Frogs
It is from a dart frog care sheet. However, the information is really good.
I'm not sure how others feel about this brand of supplements . I would not use it.
Do a 'google' search ; you will find some very objective opinions as to why NOT to use it for amphibians.
Consider a routine / alternating the use of more than one product. ie:
Rep-Cal Supplements
Rep-Cal Supplements Calcium
Repashy Superfoods :: RETAIL SALES :: By Product Name :: Calcium Plus :: Calcium Plus 4 oz BAG - Repashy Ventures - Distributor Center
Lynn
Current Collection
Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"
Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"
Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"
Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)
Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
Oophaga histrionica "Tado"
Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
Ranitomeya vanzolinii
http://www.fernsfrogs.com
https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs
after seeing a post from someone that had a green tree frog go through the exact same thing as well. I believe that he had a blockage due to eating crickets that were too large. I have let the other crickets go and now I'm giving smaller crickets. I have only ever seen calcium deficiency cause seizures. Never too much and it wouldn't have been an instant response. I will not use reptivite again. I will show pictures soon, my phone won't let me
Hm... I've never seen calcium deficiency cause seizures; usually it causes MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease) which is typically characterized by weakness and poor bone formation. These symptoms are almost always obvious for a while before anything as serious as a seizure could happen. Calcium overdose, however, will cause seizures. When in a liquid (like water, or a body) Calcium ionizes (forms Ca2+ ions). Ca2+ is a very important in intercellular signalling in animals; most notably in the firing of neurons. In animals that absorb fluid and oxygen readily through their skin, being exposed to an excess of dissolved calcium over the skin or even through the mouth will cause seizures, as all the Ca2+ will begin to cause neurons to fire abnormally.
I don't know if that's what happened to your frog, but I believe that's the reason calcium overdose will cause seizures (I'm mainly a plant person, but Ca2+ works pretty similarly in both systems).
Was there a lump on the frog's side? That'd be an indicator of a blockage.
Both high and low calcium levels can cause seizures. The percentage of frogs having calcium deficiencies definitely outweighs the number of overdoses. This is mainly due to lack of supplementation, by us, in captivity.
Brands do matter. One of my retf's starting having tetany last year out of the blue, even though receiving supplements routinely, both weekly Herptivite and every other day calcium/D3. I checked the dates and they were not expired. I switched to repcal calcium with D 3 (as recommended by my vet) and continued to use herptivite and the tetany was gone within 2 days.
So many things can change the amount of supplement they actually get... did the frog eat the night you used the supplement? How many did he eat? How much coated the cricket or insect? How big is the insect(s)? How much did the insect clean off before they were eaten? Did the insect get wet and the supplement washed off? Etc. This is why it is also a good idea to dust their food just prior to feeding. It will help to eliminate a few of these possibilities of less supplement on your frogs insects.
I would consider returning the Reptivite...it is formulated for reptiles. Repashy and Herptivite are great options for frogs.
Yes, it is necessary to also have a separate calcium supplement, one that has vitamin D3 so the calcium can be properly absorbed. Otherwise, it will pass through their intestines with minimal absorption, which can again lead to deficiency.
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A safer way to dose the calcium when our frogs aren't eating is to use a product like reptaboost or the liquid electroltye replacement(s) soaks made for amphibians, or to carefully force feed the appropriate amount of insect(s) with the appropriate amount of supplement.
Here is a thread we had not long ago about calcium, vitamin D3 and why herps need the supplements when in captivity...
http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...ut-vit-d3.html
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in Spain I don't find rep cal products. Are Exo terra supplements good? some people say to me "buy Reptivite " other "buy herptivite" ...and so on . I don't know what I must buy.
Hi all,
Well.....
First off, I don't endorse nor particularly care for reptivite. I did use it, never had a problem. Switched to Repashy products and am now using the Rep-Cal brand calcium and separate mult vitamin (herptivite).
I do know, as I'm looking at an old sample that I had, that the reptivite is safe for amphibians.
Zoo Med ReptiVite Vitamin - Free Shipping
Also, I did a brief search online about the product, and can't find any real accounts of why reptivite is un-safe for amphibians.
This mysterious issue of reptivite having killed meal worms and a tree frog, seems to me very unlikely. I would guess it was either a drowning situation, or coincidence, or something enitirely different.
Heather has made some good points. If there is too much of any product ingested at one time, this could cause a problem as well.
But, as I said, I do not use reptivite at all any more, and can't speak for it's efficacy.
I dis-agree that the product is dangerous, however....
And, guilletto:
The exo-terra products work fine. Just be sure to use a separate vitamin and separate calcium.
Dust with calcium a couple to three times per week and the vitamin once per week.
1.1.0 White's Treefrog
1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog
Thks for your answer! I wanna know a last thing. I bought Reptivite alone because it seemed it included Calcium and vitD3 (also minerals, vitamins,...) Then, must I buy another product with calcium :S ?
I found this while searching online:
http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...-vitamins.html
interesting because John states reptivite should be fine, by itself?
Now I'm really confused.
Hi again,
I would highly suggest you also supplement with a calcium powder with d3 as well.
Even though some said it's not necessary because the reptivite contains calcium. Your frog is young still, and growing. A calcium deficiency is likely if he doesn't get enough, and a calcium overload is unlikely.
MBD (metabolic bone disease) can be fatal.
The reptivite contains the vitamin A which is necessary, but when consumed with the calcium at the same time, the calcium doesn't get absorbed as easily. That is why many recomend you use a calcium powder singly, separate from the vitamin.
I am very confused as to why John would say it's ok to use only reptivite, and not a calcium only powder (in above link), maybe someone can shed light on this?
It's tough to get an exact dose for each individual frog due to their own eating habits.
From what I have learned and experienced over the years, this is what I have found...
You should use a calcium with vitamin D3 supplement every other day. For a MVI, Repashy can be used daily and Herptivite should be used one day a week, but not on the same day as the calcium .
You're right, though...there is a lot of different information on the topic.
The one thing we do know for sure is that without calcium with vita D3 for frogs in captivity...they will have bone, muscular, and digestive issues and they will develop MDB.
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