White spots on ADF male.

[njnolan1]

I had another thread but it's really long and I don't think anyone is going to read it if I add to it. Sorry if I'm not supposed to start a new thread.

I have three frogs and two are fine. About a week ago one of the male frog's mouth got a white spot right in the middle. It didn't grow at all so I just thought it was probably a wound. Well, now he has two new white spots on his back. They're not fuzzy or anything. They almost look like blisters. I'm not going to lie, the tank is over stocked and even though the water has tested clean for months the last two tests have shown ammonia. I use prime which is supposed to irreversibly bond with ammonia, making it safe. I also use stress zyme. I do weekly water changes but until the ammonia is at 0 again like it was for months I'll increase my w/c's.

Any ideas on how to treat this or what it may be? If it's a fungus, which I always thought was fuzzy, I read good things about maracyn one and frogs. Otherwise I have no idea what it is. I'd hate to see my guy die. The only thing I can think of is ammonia blistering. Which coupled with the last couple of tests is very possible. I wouldn't think this would be a problem since I'm using prime but what do I know?

Should I dose with salt as you would with fish? I added some salt for a couple water changes when I first put in the Endler's and it didn't seem to affect them. It was a few weeks ago. I haven't added any since though.

Thanks for any help.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Jenste]

Just to get all the information possible -
How large is the tank?
Temperature? Filtration?
What was your water change schedule like and what did you add/change to the tank?
Current tank mates?
Current Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate/pH readings?

[njnolan1]

Hey, thanks for responding! Does it look like anything you've seen before? It's really strange. They haven't changed much since last night and the white mark on his lip looks the same.

The tank is over stocked and I'm trying to figure out a way to increase the size of the tank. I'm very broke right now and I'm just working on getting the ammonia back down to where it was for months.

The tank is only a 2.5 gallon tank with filter, it's a betta bow (the frogs were a gift to me and were fine for the past year until recently but they've only been in the tank for 5-6 months). I also have 3 Endler's who are happy as clams. Probably for around a month and they don't seem to be affected by the recent ammonia increase. They swim a lot and eat whenever I feed them. I have 5 live plants in the tank too. 3 anubias nana and two moss balls (the last ball was just put in the other day but the other plants have been in there for a couple of months). I haven't changed anything else in the tank other than what is stated. The moss ball and removal and reintroduction of the prefilter.

I've had trouble with heating the tank because it's so small. The only heater I didn't try was the Marina 10w which is supposed to keep the tank at about 78F. I will be getting that for next winter as this one is over and the normal temperature in our house is 78 for half of the year. Right now the mercury thermometer says 75.

I use Prime and Stress Zyme once weekly when I do water changes which worked out fine for months. I read on prime's FAQ sheet (Seachem. Prime FAQ) that it bonds with ammonia permanently until it is consumed by the beneficial bacteria. I was over feeding the fish which I believe to be the cause of the increase in ammonia. I also removed the prefiler for a few days around the same time as the over feeding, dumb move I know.

My water changes are about 1 gallon once a week. I would always test the day before and until the past two tests the water has tested 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and usually <10 nitrates. Over the past week I've tested the water 3 times. First time there was an increase in ammonia. Not sure of numerical value but more than just a smidgen. The second test was a few days ago and it was pretty bad with ammonia. No nitrites and small amount of nitrates. The test I took this morning had less ammonia but still higher than the "safe zone" and I know the actual safe zone is 0. But higher than the key said was safe.

As far as feeding I use Hikari blood worms. I tried the pellets. They dont' like them and they fall apart in the tank. Brine shrimp and tubifex worms are nasty. When I get a bigger tank I'll be able to put in a dish so I can just put the food in one spot but right now the food just gets tossed around the whole tank. They ALWAYS finish every last blood worm! I check an hour later and all the worms are gone. I've tried krill but they weren't impressed and didn't even try to eat them. I just bought some plankton and I'll see if they go for that. The beefheart looks like it's going to be messy too. I might try glass worms but they're so tiny I don't know if my frogs will be able to get them as they'll probably just fall through the gravel. I was thinking of possibly chopping up crickets or tiny mealworms or maybe even red wigglers/earth worms. We'll see about that though. Thanks for any help!

[mpmistr]

Very good chance your frogs are burning themselves on the heater, as they are prone to do. Does this heater have a plastic guard? If not it needs one.

[njnolan1]

I actually don't have a heater right now but that's good to know in the future! I plan on getting the marina 10w that has a 78 degree internal thermostat for next year. I'm in NC and it's supposed to be much warmer right now! The tank is still around 74-75 right now.

His behavior seems odd too. It might just be painful. He's completely hiding in the dark area of the bridge. They're usually out from under there. Well, we'll see. Hopefully whatever it is will fix itself. I'm going to increase the water changes to at least twice a week until the ammonia goes back to 0. Thanks for any help!

[mpmistr]

Hmm if not heater could be physical damage, is there anything sharp decor in there? Your water chemistry sounds fine, though even slight traces of ammonia can be toxic to frogs of course. Any bullying going on from the cohabitants of the tank?

Could be fungal related, could be bacterial infection. Could be from the environment. Sounds like you answered your own question though, you need a larger system for these frogs, fishes. I do not keep ADF but from what I know, they are quite fragile.

[njnolan1]

I wont lie to you guys. When I first got them I had no idea what I was doing. They were over fed in a smaller 2 gallon non filtered container. They stayed like this for 5 months at least. I cleaned it once a week and not only did they grow, they remained healthy and seemingly happy this whole time. They mated, swam around and ate every chance they got. I tested the water right before I changed it over to the tank (I couldn't afford the extra 20 bucks for the 5 gallon) with a filter etc... The water quality obviously had no nitrites or nitrates because I cleaned it out once a week but there was definitely ammonia. Not too terrible though.

Then after I got this tank it still took around 10 weeks for it to cycle. Terrible readings until a couple of weeks after I added gravel and started using stress zyme. Then it was perfect for a few months up until this past two weeks. I know what I did wrong, I over fed the fish, a lot. I thought the frogs would eat the left over food. It became obvious they weren't when I gravel vacced. I also removed the prefilter because a lot of the stuff that was sticking to the filter was falling and rotting in the gravel below. But then I realized not only did I remove surface area for good bacteria but the same stuff would just rot in the filter, the same filter the water would have water flowing through! I'm not always the brightest bulb!

[njnolan1]

One of the spots has healed. The other looks a bit brighter. This is pretty strange.

[LunaDay]

I wish I had some info to offer here. I've never seen anything like that. Hope it heals up!

[njnolan1]

Quick update: The spot on the lip hasn't changed at all. Possibly a bit larger but it's hard to tell. He's eating well though. Just watched him chomp down on some blood worm goodness tonight.

Now for the weird stuff. The white spots are coming and going pretty quickly. I literally watched it changed in the matter of a few minutes. There was a pretty bright white spot on his side. I fed him. Minutes later the spot was completely gone. Is he a chameleon or a frog?!

[Hidr]

I would do daily water changes. Till you get a bigger tank. You could get a rubber maid. They make great temp homes for fish I am sure one would work fine for frogs. I would also do salt treatments to help him heal but only if you can get the ammonia down to 0 until then just daily water changes. Salt and ammonia are a bad thing for your fish.

I treat my ADF's the same as I do the fish in the tank. So far that has worked for me.

Good luck

[njnolan1]

I would do daily water changes. Till you get a bigger tank. You could get a rubber maid. They make great temp homes for fish I am sure one would work fine for frogs. I would also do salt treatments to help him heal but only if you can get the ammonia down to 0 until then just daily water changes. Salt and ammonia are a bad thing for your fish.

I treat my ADF's the same as I do the fish in the tank. So far that has worked for me.

Good luck

Thanks! I got a 5.5 gallon tank now! Only 20 dollars on sale! I was using salt in the other tank but I read it's bad for the plants so I don't use it anymore. I'm going to test the water in a few days and see where we're at. I moved the gravel from my old tank and prefilter plus decor over without rinsing or cleaning so there should be some good bacteria already in the tank. I just hate this loud filter...

As far as healing goes I don't know if there's anything to heal. The color changes happen in just a few minutes. They go and come. This morning he has two white spots. But they constantly change. Very weird. He's not acting lethargic or anything. He's eating etc... I need to get a food dish for them now that I have a larger tank.

[Jenste]

Eh! for $20 you could have gotten a 20 gallon tank at the Petco sale.

Continue with the water changes and hopefully this should clear up.

[njnolan1]

no room for that plus I would still need to get a filter... Plus I would need to buy 20 lbs of gravel or sand. I would also have to buy more decor since the tank is so big. With my discount I paid 17 and change including tax. Oh, and I wouldn't get my 15% discount!

Although, this filter is not my favorite and I'll probably end up buying another filter anyway.

[njnolan1]

I switched the filter for an Aqueon quiet flow 10. It's definitely a much better filter than the top fin 10 but not much quieter. I'm not concerned with the noise for myself but my arachnids, who rely mostly on vibrations, are located on the same level and I don't want this to eventually stress them out. I'm not going to do the internal filter as the tank is too small and it would uglify my cute little tank but I may try and get a piece of styrofoam, as suggested, and place it on top of that.

[Louis Charles Bruckner]

Just make sure you buy gravel that is too large for them to swallow.
If you are close to raleigh I have some equipment you are welcome to have.

I have a 20Gal long. and a couple of other tanks at least 20 gal
A small whisper quiet filter.
Free . you just need to come and pick it up.

[njnolan1]

Just make sure you buy gravel that is too large for them to swallow.
If you are close to raleigh I have some equipment you are welcome to have.

I have a 20Gal long. and a couple of other tanks at least 20 gal
A small whisper quiet filter.
Free . you just need to come and pick it up.

Wow, thanks! I'm actually in Raleigh. My only other problem is that I don't have anywhere to put a 20 gallon. I have a 20g long with a hamster in it but it would be way to heavy for the stand if I added water. That's totally awesome of you though! Thanks! I wish I could take you up on that offer!

[njnolan1]

The spots are still there. Can't say they're getting any better or worse though. They change a lot. They literally change in just moments. I'm wondering if it's a has to do with their nutrition as I only feed blood worms right now. Of course, I imagine the others would show signs too.

They're doing great in their new tank. Very happy!

[Jenste]

Definitely odd. As long as it is only one frog and it does not seem to be getting worse or spreading you may be alright.

[njnolan1]

Thanks. He's acting normal too. Idk with these guys and their weird frog skin!