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Thread: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

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    Default Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    My Whites Tree Frog is not looking well at all. I went to feed it (hasn't eaten much in the past few days, but did eat its shed) and it really wanted to get away from me. It appears not to be able to use its front arms at all... they are tucked under the frog's belly with the back of the hands against the ground. It is pushing itself around with only its back legs. It also appears to have lesions on its back right leg, which I did not see before today. The frog looks miserable and I have no idea what happened

    I'm thinking bacteria for the skin, but have no way of knowing. It looks like it got crushed or something the way it is holding its arms, but I swear I have no idea how that could have happened.

    Please help... the little one isn't looking well...

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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

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    Here are pics... the hands look a little swollen (hard to tell cause the skin is flabby, and I don't know the little guy that well yet). You can see the discoloration on his skin, and I just saw his belly... there are lesions there. This has all set in very rapidly. Maybe a few days, tops. The guy is adjusting to a new surrounding still, so I have no clue what normal behavior is, and didn't see any warning signs. He was even croaking for the first time the other night as he ate his shed.

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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    And he may be slightly bloated. I noticed not two days ago that he looks really skinny compared to his (very active) tank mate, but right now he is looking less skinny. Not a huge change, though.
    Last edited by Gage; January 22nd, 2013 at 11:46 PM. Reason: incorrect writing first time

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    100+ Post Member Gnag the nameless's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    Alright, I'm new to frogs too, but I know enough to give you this advice:

    Quarantine the frog immediately, in a spare tank. Give him all the necessities, force-feed him if absolutely necessary.

    I strongly suggest you take him to the vet as soon as possible. That looks like a bacterial or fungal infection to me, and those never turn out good if not treated by a veterinarian. Locate your nearest EXOTIC Vet and get that frog to the vet, now!

    Whatever it is, it very likely has been brought on by the stress of moving to a new home, or he had it when he was shipped or kept in the pet store.

    We need experts on this, now. I'm horrified that I'm the first person to have given advice, but do not worry, more WILL come. And don't think that this was your fault, it's highly unlikely. Hold on, froggy.

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    100+ Post Member Gnag the nameless's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    I'll inform GriftheGreat, Heather, and other experts on this website of your post as well... I would expect at least 2 experts to have given advice to you by tomorrow, 5PM. Before then, keep the frog in the hospital tank, with a water dish, maybe a hiding spot, and cover. Try to prevent stress, and if need be, forcefeed the frog HUMANELY. Here's a video of a frog owner showing how to:
    How To Force Feed a Frog or Toad the Right Way !EMERGENCIES ONLY! - YouTube

    Try not to worry. Keep an eye on the frog, but try not to stress him out more. I still think you should get him to a exotic Vet ASAP. Until then, lets just cross our fingers that an expert on the forum will see this post and lend a hand.

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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    OK, Gnag. Thank you for helping out and for promoting this thread to others who can also help.

    I have limited access to exotic vets where I live, but will do what I can ASAP.

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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    Hi Phil and sorry to see that your little one is unwell. Without proper diagnostics from a qualified exotic vet (ideally that practises in herpetology) it would be hard to say exactly what is wrong. With that said, there are visual signs of what looks like bacterial growth and legions on the outer skin. This is normally but not limited to poor hygiene. Of course there are a few steps that you can take (home meds) to give your little one a fighting chance. As said above, first you need to move the animal into a medi tank. This is what we call quarantine as a general rule of thumb. This temporary enclosure is made up of a plastic critter keep with a base medium of white, sterile polly roll, a small plastic water basin dish (not ceramic) and a small plastic jungle vine.
    There are a few well know meds out there however and due to the complex toxicology that all Anura inhibit, one must make sure that each method is well documented. I can personally account having used the following methods for bacterial infections, both internally and externally. These consist of the following treatment programs.

    Bactyfec
    Bactyfec is effective against bacterial infections such as skin rot, mouth fungus, dropsy and skin ulcers as well as internal infections. To counteract such infections Bactyfec contains the antibiotic enrofloxacine which is known to be a very effective broad spectrum antibiotic.

    Melafix
    Melafix is effective against bacterial infections as above but is far less potent as it is mainly used to treat aquatics. The active ingredient in Melafix is 1% 'Melaleuca' and is an all natural Aboriginal fern.

    **There are many other treatment plans but I would rather not make assumptions as I can only recommend what has worked for me in the past.

    As an added note Phil, your frog must be bathed every evening at the very same time. Once bathing, you must completely strip out the medi tank, making sure that each part (tank, basin and vine) is thoroughly cleaned with a mild disinfectant like beaphar. After 30 minutes bathe, remove your frog from the solution and place back into the medi tank. Continue this process for a period of 10 day. Only after the first 10 days have ended must you introduce 'one' dusted cricket. If the frog fails to eat the cricket simply take it out and replace with a fresh one. Continue for another 10 day making sure after each bathe, there is a fresh live feeder in there.

    This is a tried and tested method Phil. Others may come onto the thread with more ideas however and I cannot stress this enough... once you have started on a program, you must stick to it and let it run its course. Do not swap half way into a treatment program or 'mix and match' methods.

    Very best of luck and I wish you well.

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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    Thank you very much. I will use this and do what I can to educate myself. I have him in a plastic quarantine now with a moistened paper towel beneath him. I replaced that already, and found there was blood from his feet and underside on it.

    I appreciate the description of the treatment plan. I will look into it.

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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    Quote Originally Posted by Gage View Post
    Thank you very much. I will use this and do what I can to educate myself. I have him in a plastic quarantine now with a moistened paper towel beneath him. I replaced that already, and found there was blood from his feet and underside on it.

    I appreciate the description of the treatment plan. I will look into it.

    Hi Phil,
    You have gotten very good advice! However you may not be able to , easily get, those two medication in the US ( maybe on line) .Then you would need to know exactly how to does it. He needs a herp vet as soon as you can! If you do not have one that specializes and treats frogs(a very important question to ask them )see option at the very end of this message.

    When you get a chance let me know if the frog been given calcium and vitamins supplements - if so -how often?
    (maybe PM me so I don't lose track of this thread?) AND, what is in his tank , please send me a list, ie any electrical equipment, how close to a heat source is he?

    purchase the following items:
    1-a gallon of distilled water
    2-plain pedialyte ( you will find it in the supermarket in the baby isle)
    - make a 1:10 diluted solution with distilled water ( 1 part pedi and 10 parts distilled water)
    -you can put a drop or 2 of honey in this water( but you will then have to rinse him off)( I really don't think-it's worth the trouble)
    -soak the frog everyday for about 15-20 minutes -in the hospital tank- in the soaking container--every day !

    note : this solution might be replaced w/ something similar/better -- from the vet. but at least you can keep him hydrated for now

    3-in the same baby isle - purchase what looks like a needles syringe-

    4-same isle - very small -coated baby spoon ( keep this on hand to open his mouth for force feeding)

    5- if possible , expedite the shipping on a product such as Flukers 'Repta+Boost', Repashy make a product like this also
    ( this is a nutritional supplement - simply follow the directions)
    note: if you have a food scale ( weigh him !)

    please understand - the food is not as important as the medications he needs!

    -do a FF search- you will find LOTS of photos showing how to "force feed" a frog---if you have to you can feed red wriggler? ( ask GrifTheGreat which worms ?) or remove the legs from a cricket - dust it ( or/with the worms) with vitamins and calcium/ squish it into the syringe - and feed it to him if he is not eating

    6- get a tube of neosporin ( cream if possible) WITHOUT PAIN KILLER - the pain killer ingredient will kill your frog.

    7- q-tips to appy the neosporin to every single little brown spot - every single day until they are gone.
    Note - there are much better topical medications for this- a vet will likely replace it --but at least you can get started !

    All of these these are standard supplies that should be kept in the "froggy medicine cabinet'


    LAST BY NOT LEAST:

    do this immediately if you do not have a vet.
    http://www.frogforum.net/tree-frogs/...-prepared.html
    email Dr Frye:
    Send photos and the best description as possible as to what is going on
    Try to get a weight on your frog- include that information as well
    Include... like....... a little " medical history" including details on his day-to day care
    Include information on the use and frequency of calcium and vitamin supplements

    He needs an oral and topical antiviral/antibiotic as soon as possible! Dr Frye make this transaction very easy. You do not pay to email. Youe pay for the prescriptions via credit card (or ? pay pal)

    Phil, hang in there ---- this can take weeks but he is worth it !
    Current Collection
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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    Hi, thank you so much for your response. I will really look all of this over and get the supplies. Unfortunately, the little guy didn't make it through the night.

    He has a LOT of decay and damage on his hands and feet... I have no idea when it started, but it was less than a few days in the making. His tank-mate is totally healthy (even escaped again last night...fixed that problem up once and for all with some tape), so I don't know, but I shade away from the belief that it is the tank. I really have no idea.

    They are pretty new, so it's possible it wasn't healthy to begin with. I wasn't able to get a vet exam before I relocated after buying them.

    Ugh... so many unanswered questions. R.I.P. Trust. May your next life be less stressful buddy.

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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    Phil, very sorry to hear about your loss, it saddens me that you did not get the help or advise till only 24 hours ago!! More often than not, symptoms can be well established before a proper diagnosis or treatment plan is underway. I have however got some friendly words of advice for you and others that may find themselves in the same situation. It would be wise to completely strip down the enclosure your frog was in. Take it back to the bone, removing all interior decor, furnishings and substrate. Thoroughly soak, clean and discard any unsightful medium as a matter of course. Only then would you be safe in the knowledge that your other and apparently 'healthy' (and I say that lightly) frog can lead a long and prosperous life in your care.

    **Although your other frog may seem bright and healthy now, be sure to keep a close eye on him. Making sure that none of the symptoms start to show. If they do Phil, then both myself and Lynn have provided you treatment plans based on our experience and knowledge - remember, prevention is better than the cure. Your frog relies on you so don't let him down. If in doubt just ask!! Best of luck Phil and I wish you well.

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    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    So very, very sorry Phil,
    I only wish we could have helped sooner
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

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    Default Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    Hi Phil! I'm very sorry for your loss .

    I apologize I did not see this post sooner. I sometimes miss some on my 12-hr work days .

    It seemed to be a rapid disease process. The lesions developed quickly. I have my suspicions he may have had some underlying illness when you received him.

    Please quarantine your other frog and give their main tank a good cleaning. I think I'd even start the tank with new substrate and wash all decor in a 5 % bleach solution, followed by a very thorough rinsing, and another rinsing with a good amount of dechlorinator in the rinse water to be sure all chlorine and chloramines are neutralized. That way you know for sure that its not from their home.
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    100+ Post Member Gnag the nameless's Avatar
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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    I'm so sorry for you, Phil I can't imagine what it'd be like.

    The advice Heather has given, though, is definitely good advice. And I agree with her on that it was almost definitely a ailment that the frog either caught during shipping or before you got him, so it is not your fault. Try to focus on your other frog. Once again, I truly am sorry we couldn't save your hopper. At least he's in peace now.

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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    The result of the responses to this thread is my greater education, and for that I am deeply thankful. It is no one's fault for not seeing it in time - even if you had been here with me in person from the moment I noticed it, I fear there could have been nothing done. The other frog is quite happy seeming, doesn't mind being hoisted to his feeding bowl, and eats without complaint. I will definitely keep an eye on him and take measures to improve the tank (it is still somewhat meager anyway, in my opinion).

    Thank you all again. I hope to interact more with you all on a happier note soon!

    P.S. I laid Trust to rest this evening after classes. Now Hope is all I have Literally!

    Phil E.

  19. #17
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    Default Re: Help! New (two weeks of ownership) Frog seems crippled

    FYI If he has a tank mate put him/her in a clean container, and completely sterilize everything from that cage. Boiling water can be used on cage furnishings along with gentle soaps like dish soap. I'd soap first, rinse good then boil, as this will get any soap you've missed. Bleach the living **** out of that cage and rinse good (find someone with a good nose to sniff, if the cage smells of bleach keep rinsing, use really hot water... Anything natural like moss, substrate, wood climbing branches, and the frogs remains...take'em outside to the fire pit in burn them (don't compost, you could spread disease to local anphibs) or seal them in a bag and toss them in the trash if your trash hauler has an incinerator. The reptile trade has likely caused the spread of fatal fast acting frog diseases round the world so you don't want to help it along by disposing of anything outside in your yard. Yea, this means you probably shouldn't bury your pet. I've lost 2 pyxies, once to illness, once to accident with the halogen heat bulb, it sucks. I've not tried again, but I hope you have luck with the other froggie.

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