Hello, converting form reefkeeping to dart frogs

[rockytop47]

Hey all,
Well I'm so new to this hobby that I still have my 65 tall set-up and running as a reef tank. Main thing I am doing right now is waiting for the first Tuesday of the next month so my livestock can go back to my LFS. At that point I will begin the break down of the tank. I have a couple of questions that I'd like to throw out. First and foremost, re-usable equipment. My tank is drilled with a 20 gallon long sump/refugium under cabinet, running a Reef Octopus 110 GPH protein skimmer. 165 watt leds lights on seperate switches, 75 watt 10,000 kelvin "whites" and 90 watts, 20,000 kelvin "blues". When running together, they are rated at 14,000 kelvin. They put off virtually no heat and I'm sure that that's probably overkill, but they sure make corals and algae grow like crazy and the colors really pop.
1) lights. I haven't seen ANYONE that uses leds in vivariums, or I haven't found anyone yet. I plan on using mine, maybe not using the blues and if possible, getting a dimmer card to dim the whites if need be. Any thoughts on leds as whole in this hobby? I know that the gold standard in reefing is compacts like the T-5's this hobby uses with a switch coming now over to leds in the saltwater community. I'm aware the lights are for plants and not for the animals per se.
2) False bottom. I WANT to incorporate my protein skimmer and sump into the vivarium. I don't want a water feature, but would like a reservoir under the false bottom that circulates and cleans all the water that comes down through the substrate and media. I have a 5 stage rodi/distilled water purifier setup that automatically adjusts my water levels due to evaporation.
Thanks in advance for your answers and as far as re-using my equipment? If I can't boil it to clean it, I won't use it!

[deranged chipmunk]

Welcome to frog forum and frogging. I'll try to answer your questions best as i can.

First off, led's will work just fine for growing plants, but your color temps are too high. 6500k-6700k is ideal for plants. The 10000k's are great for algae, as you noted that they grow corals incredibly. You can always go trial and error on number of leds and the spreads. 40degree optics are seeming to be the trend in the planted tank world, but i haven't played with them.

I'm thinking that is you are not having a water feature, a sump is overkill. I'm all for filtering the water reservoir, but a sump and protein skimmer are just a bit much for water that is just going to be removed. Unless you plan on breeding, in which case an algae sump where the tads can live and grow and feed on algae would be helpful. I have one for my mantella tank and trust me it is actually a pain to grow algae......lol:

[rockytop47]

Nice! Hadn't thought of using the sump for tadpoles! My sump is actually set up as a refugium as well, so having a refuge for tads may be an idea down the road. As far as the 10,000's Kelvin? Yea OVERKILL, however I forgot to mention I can install a dimmer AND driver to the lights to dim and simulate dusk/dawn features. I'm hoping for the price I put into the lights already, I wont have to switch back over to t-5's. I would only run my "whites" anyway and @3 watts per bulb @ 25 bulbs, 75 watts is hopefully doable? And dimmed even more? And I'm a fish guy at heart, so the protein skimmer was just my idea of keeping the water clean and circulating under the false bottom. Suppose I could just still do water changes every so often as my water gets brown. Thanks Bill!

[deranged chipmunk]

no need to switch to t5's. especially if you can get 6500k leds for your set up. but i would play with the 10k's first. i know a few guys who keep planted tanks with 10000k bulbs. the plants grow nice, but it's just too darned blue for me. you'll just need to play with the dimmer for a few weeks to see where you get the most optimum plant growth. going to be a lot of trial and error there, i'm afraid.

it's funny, i too, am a fish guy. been keeping tanks for 30 some years, and it took a bit of adjusting. kind of like what? i don't need $10k in equipment? no way!!LOL so as i was reading your original post i was like cool, a sump. that would be awesome. wait, he wants to do what with a sump?? i had to read it a few times to get it straight in my head because the fish guy said yeah man, but the frogger was like, overkill!!LOL but hey, you're water can never be too clean, right??LOL i run a fluval fx5 inline with an ocean clear canister on a 75. my tank doesn't even look like there's water in it.....LOL so believe me, i understand over kill.

good luck with your build and if you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask

[rockytop47]

I KNOW right? I have a 65 tall w/20 gallon sump/refugium. I have an Eheim 1400 GPH return pump, Reef Octopus NW110 protein skimmer, LED'S, 2 Hydor Koralia 450's, 250 pounds of live rock, Blah, Blah, Blah! I wouldn't ever run my blues, because, quite frankly, they're too blue (makes my golden headed sleeper goby look like a freak of nature when it's just the blues.) I would however, incorporate a moonlight strip into a driver(Eco Tech is the way I'll go). I just HATE selling anything I couldn't at least TRY to use on a vivarium!

[deranged chipmunk]

nice list. i love koralias, i won;t ever buy anything else again. want to hear the truly funny part? you could probably get away with a $20 shop light from home depot and the plants would be just as happy. i actually have one running a 60g viv. my ferns LOVE it....lol you can always pick the plant geeks out in a crowd, we're the ones talking about lighting, and not much else....LOL

so a 65 tall? please tell me you're gonna put a species in there that will use the whole thing!!

[rockytop47]

Oh Yea! Luecs all the way! Would LOVE to get my hands on some French Guiana's. But would just as happy with standard bumble bees. I am going to start my journey next month as my LFS has a buy back policy on fish, not inverts or corals, which sucks because I have a nice 4 headed Duncan, a candy cane trumpet, several species of mushrooms including fuzzies, a Sebae anemone hosting true Percs, peppermint shrimp, skunk shrimp, brittle star, the list goes on and on... I will use the styrofoam/concrete background technique(hate the look of the Great Stuff) on three sides, tear out my overflow box, lower my return pipe. I'll post pics the whole way!

[rockytop47]

Would like to keep the head on my outflow, however. It already has a Durso and syphon breaks built in to safe guard against power outages and in Mobile, Alabama during the rainy season, power outages are commonplace...

[deranged chipmunk]

a Sebae anemone hosting true Percs

ya had me there. one of my fav inverts was an arrow crab i had back in the early 90's. in fact, that was my last reef setup. let me know when you start, i want to be sure to keep track of the build

[rockytop47]

Absolutely! Have made 2 trips to Lowe's to "window" shop already. I have a link from dart den that's given me a great idea for the background. I'll have tons of floor space as well, so it's going to be "layered" and down here, by the time I'm ready to plant in early March, they'll have 3/4 of the plants I'd like to use. Creeping fig to me is a MUST in any viv! I've even convinced the wife it's a great idea and she don't fool easily!

[deranged chipmunk]

when you are ready to plant, remind me, and i will probably be able to hook you up with some oak leaf creeping fig and a couple other vines of course she agreed, she did the math and figured out that it's cheaper than a reef set up.....LOL does she know about the flies yet??? That was the hard thing to convince my wife on, and don't even get me started on how she was when i mentioned roaches.....LMAO!!

[rockytop47]

Well the GOOD news? I work in a large produce warehouse in Moss Point Ms. I am a delivery driver there and we have EVERYTHING a fruit fly would ever need should he feel the need to roam the house. I even keep a good supply of apple cider vinegar for my steamed kale. The bad news? "What do you mean flies? Are we talking like little gnat thingies that get into EVERYTHING?" No dear, these can't fly... Yea already been there...LOL!

[deranged chipmunk]

my wife "made me a deal". after i built the tank, she said if i can culture fruit flies for a month and i could put them in the the tank, and she never sees one, then i was good to go. but if she ever saw one fly, then no darts. sucker's bet. i won that one hands down!! she's still not happy that i have roaches, but she is warming up to it since my daughter told her they were cool....LOL

[rockytop47]

That's great! I'd raise her allowance! My granddaughter is all about papaw getting frogs, but not so much on the bugs to feed it. Hard to convince a girly-girl(not a tomboy bone in this child) in kindergarten frogs do have to eat! Seriuosly though, I'd LOVE some oak leaf fig! And thanks way in advance! I have a "pot" area planned for the top right of the tank that, when the fig takes off, I'll train to my background. I've had creeping fig before in a 38 show I made into a viv for fire bellied toads and I had to prune it once a month! What are some other vines that do well in a viv?

[Heatheranne]

Welcome

[rockytop47]

Thank you Heather!

[flybyferns]

rockytop47 meet 'Mr Bill Begonia'
Tell me if I'm wrong.
But.... I think after reading this thread --- that this might be 2 man forum

Again Welcome to FF rockytop47

[deranged chipmunk]

Jim, there are many vines that work in a viv besides creeping fig. there's creeping charlie, which is a pilea sp., philodendrons, pothos, most of the cissus family do well in vivs, if you can find them. peperomia rotundifolia is another. i just picked up a couple cool ones, a mini aroid vine, which i assume even the seller couldn't identify, and rhaphldophora pachphylla, which i should be able to hook you up with when you are ready to plant.

Lynn, you may be correct, this thread may just need a woman's touch

[Heatheranne]

Thank you Heather!

You're welcome

[rockytop47]

Hey Thanks Bill! I HAVEN'T begun to even research plants I'd like to have. In between work and the wife's birthday party, research, research and then some frog research, I know it'll come together. LADIES! By all means chime in! I think a ladies touch is always welcome whether a man would admit it or not. y'all seem to have an eye for detail we sometimes lack! Anywhoo, I'll be going the pink insulfoam/drylok route for my background and I'd like to do the whole back and angle in the 2 sides. The tank sits where it is in full front view from my living room and I can see it as well from the dining room table. I want a "layered" look for the plants, low in front, tall in back, "flowing" off the back wall and sides, ledges for tsillandias AND frogs, columns for depth, Blah, Blah, Blah. Got to get the wife's camera looked at and fixed or the build pics will be with my Iphone!