Need some help....Impaction

[GrifTheGreat]

I dont want to go into a heated debate here again but ill also add that a frog living in a 85 degree tank placed in 90 degree or even 95 degree water is only small deferential. Its a couple degrees celcius. Its nothing. In fact, any time you place a frog in a water dish without specifically measuring the temp first you are probably subjecting it to a 10 degree change in farrenheit anyway. Thats why we canadians use celcius lol. Farrenheit seems so much more drastic than it really is.

Edit: And just to clarify, I in no way condone reckless frog care. My decisions are based on sound logic. I've put this logic into practice before many many times with no I'll effects. And as I said I can guarantee frogs encounter water temperatures in excess of 90 degrees on a daily basis in the wild. It's the nature of the tropics. I've been in Thailand where the temperature has been at high as 117 degrees. It happens. If a frog is uncomfortable, it will jump out. That being said, I obviously don't recommend warm baths nearly that high. But 90 is safe.

There is no argument. These frogs burrow to escape heat. Therefore the temp that their body is exposed to is less than 80° to 85°. Nowhere near 90°. They do not seek water for warmth and thus a sudden exposure to high temp water can shock the frog and possibly cause death. 100° water is obsurd and if i were you would never suggest that its acceptable for another member to do so.

They thermoregulate by burrowing and cooling off in water. Check the water temp within your enclosure. Even to the touch it is cool. That is with 80° to 85°air temps. Even the substrate will be in the 70°s. They NEVER enter 90° to 100° water. Not even 85° water because not only does the water not reach these temps it may even be much less due to the fact that these frogs are nocturnal and thus come out when the heat of the day has passed. This treatment is to be followed as i have advised. There is absolutely no need for such high water temps even for tropical frogs.

[GrifTheGreat]

Unless your frog somehow swallowed a large chunk of gravel, whatever it is WILL pass. These frogs have amazing digestive systems. Even small gravel can pass easily, though it's still not good. I wouldn't worry at all as long as the frog is at the proper temperature and has access to water.
As far as the bulge, if you look at frog anatomy you will see that the stomach is on the righ.

This is true. The stomach is on the right, but when they are due for a bowel movement the right side will bulge where the instestine is near the righy side of the belly

[Maharg]

There is no argument. These frogs burrow to escape heat. Therefore the temp that their body is exposed to is less than 80° to 85°. Nowhere near 90°. They do not seek water for warmth and thus a sudden exposure to high temp water can shock the frog and possibly cause death. 100° water is obsurd and if i were you would never suggest that its acceptable for another member to do so.

They thermoregulate by burrowing and cooling off in water. Check the water temp within your enclosure. Even to the touch it is cool. That is with 80° to 85°air temps. Even the substrate will be in the 70°s. They NEVER enter 90° to 100° water. Not even 85° water because not only does the water not reach these temps it may even be much less due to the fact that these frogs are nocturnal and thus come out when the heat of the day has passed. This treatment is to be followed as i have advised. There is absolutely no need for such high water temps even for tropical frogs.

Well how about this. Someone will berate and condescend me for feeding my toad a crayfish or giving my frogs warm baths. Someone will do the same to mike, a proven breeder for keeping his pixies on woodchips. I'll so the same to someone who recommends distilled water for their frogs. But all our frogs are still alive and thriving.
So maybe our frogs are just laughing at us while they enjoy a life of ultra luxury that we wouldn't even treat ourselves to because we act like they are 100 times more sensitive then humans when meanwhile they live in conditions 100 times harsher than us.

[DVirginiana]

While your frog is in the bath, you can gently touch the area just above the vent and push up/forward (GENTLY!). The frog will probably try to resist moving forward, and the muscle movements are very similar to those they use when going to the bathroom. A lot of times this will get them started. I've had this work with Trevor multiple times when I give her a preventative bath (she has a serious tendency to get impacted, so I give her unmedicated warm soaks about once a week if I feel lumps to keep things from reaching a crisis point). Don't know how much it'll help with more severe impaction, but it won't hurt anything.

[DVirginiana]

So maybe out frogs are just laughing at us while they enjoy a life of ultra luxury that we wouldn't even treat ourselves to because we act like they are 100 times more sensitive then humans when meanwhile they live in conditions 100 times harsher than us.

They also have hundreds and hundreds of babies every year because so many of them will die :P

Just because some people haven't had a problem with something doesn't mean it's a great idea for everyone. Especially if you are talking to someone who doesn't necessarily have a lot of experience with reptiles/amphibians. A first-time owner wouldn't know all the little things to avoid potential problems and probably wouldn't catch an issue until it's too late. A long-term breeder would. There's a reason most people don't recommend feeding crayfish or putting 100 degree water on your frog: They might live through it, but there's also a chance it could harm them. Why take a risk when just a little more time or effort could avoid it?

[DeeDub]

Thanks for all the replies...lol.

I estimated 100 degrees based on my body temp being roughly 98ish. It felt warm to me so I figured 100 ish....I see the flaw, my hands might be cooler than 98. Either way, the "100" degree water I used was slowly mixed with cooler water the frog was soaking in for the exact reason you and I stated. I see where your concern lies and you are right, shouldn't shock their system. I made sure I didn't. She passed a little more poo in her water dish while I was gone. I'll honey soak her again in a couple hours. I did the massage, but didn't dare push too hard and I'm pretty sure the big bump on the right side is the roach. It doesn't feel rounded like the ones on the left.

[DVirginiana]

Thanks for all the replies...lol.

I estimated 100 degrees based on my body temp being roughly 98ish. It felt warm to me so I figured 100 ish....I see the flaw, my hands might be cooler than 98. Either way, the "100" degree water I used was slowly mixed with cooler water the frog was soaking in for the exact reason you and I stated. I see where your concern lies and you are right, shouldn't shock their system. I made sure I didn't. She passed a little more poo in her water dish while I was gone. I'll honey soak her again in a couple hours. I did the massage, but didn't dare push too hard and I'm pretty sure the big bump on the right side is the roach. It doesn't feel rounded like the ones on the left.

Sometimes it takes them awhile to fully pass a bad impaction. Even afterward, they can still act a little off for a few days depending on how bad it was.

I was actually wondering how you got 100 degree water unless you boiled it or used the microwave lol. I think there is a rule about how often you can do honey soaks? Grif will probably be able to tell you more about that. No limit that I'm aware of with the pedialyte though.

[GrifTheGreat]

Well how about this. Someone will berate and condescend me for feeding my toad a crayfish or giving my frogs warm baths. Someone will do the same to mike, a proven breeder for keeping his pixies on woodchips. I'll so the same to someone who recommends distilled water for their frogs. But all our frogs are still alive and thriving.
So maybe our frogs are just laughing at us while they enjoy a life of ultra luxury that we wouldn't even treat ourselves to because we act like they are 100 times more sensitive then humans when meanwhile they live in conditions 100 times harsher than us.

Oh i have no doubt that they're living the life of luxury. I spoil mine completely. They're all fat and never have to hunt for their food, but could if necessary. Anyway back to the bath right

[GrifTheGreat]

Thanks for all the replies...lol.

I estimated 100 degrees based on my body temp being roughly 98ish. It felt warm to me so I figured 100 ish....I see the flaw, my hands might be cooler than 98. Either way, the "100" degree water I used was slowly mixed with cooler water the frog was soaking in for the exact reason you and I stated. I see where your concern lies and you are right, shouldn't shock their system. I made sure I didn't. She passed a little more poo in her water dish while I was gone. I'll honey soak her again in a couple hours. I did the massage, but didn't dare push too hard and I'm pretty sure the big bump on the right side is the roach. It doesn't feel rounded like the ones on the left.

There is some room for error on the feeling with your hand. If it feels warm then just cool it to the point of barely warm.

You can do the honey bath two days in a row. I've never seen any ill effects from even 3 baths this way so you can repeat it up to three times if necessary.

[Maharg]

Sometimes it takes them awhile to fully pass a bad impaction. Even afterward, they can still act a little off for a few days depending on how bad it was.

I was actually wondering how you got 100 degree water unless you boiled it or used the microwave lol. I think there is a rule about how often you can do honey soaks? Grif will probably be able to tell you more about that. No limit that I'm aware of with the pedialyte though.

We are talking fahrenheit lol. If I was talking celsius id be one sick puppy. Or really a fan of frog legs. Lol.

[Pluke]

DeeDub, not sure if you have one.. but I use a temp gun to test the temperature of my water. Just shoot the surface of the water and it'll give you a pretty good idea.

[Maharg]

DeeDub, not sure if you have one.. but I use a temp gun to test the temperature of my water. Just shoot the surface of the water and it'll give you a pretty good idea.

That's exactly what I use. The laser gun. Or light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation gun for all the nerds out there.
Anyways, not to beat a dead horse but that's another reason I feel 90 degree water is safe. I used to keep the water dish below the heat lamp like many people recommend for humidity. (I don't any more) The water was frequently in the 90 range and never posed a problem.

[GrifTheGreat]

That's exactly what I use. The laser gun. Or light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation gun for all the nerds out there.
Anyways, not to beat a dead horse but that's another reason I feel 90 degree water is safe. I used to keep the water dish below the heat lamp like many people recommend for humidity. (I don't any more) The water was frequently in the 90 range and never posed a problem.

You're actually not supposed to place the water dish directly under the light other wise it defeats the purpose of the water dish. Its used incase they need to cool off and hydrate, but most use it as a toilet. If you place the dish under the light then have multiple dishes of water so that there is at least one for the frog to use as a extra cooling source.

This also goes for the UTH.

[Maharg]

Yes I stopped doing that almost immediately. Every time I was testing it with the gun it was in the 90s range which I knew was much to hot for constant water temperature.

[DeeDub]

DeeDub, not sure if you have one.. but I use a temp gun to test the temperature of my water. Just shoot the surface of the water and it'll give you a pretty good idea.

I do have one. Great idea, im dumber than **** sometimes...lol. So 80ish for the temps for soaking?

[Pluke]

Haha, it happens to the best of us. The day I got that gun I was using it on everything... well, not EVERYTHING.. but yah. I've got my use out of it.

Apparently everyone has varied opinions about temperatures. I personally go for about 85. Grif recommends 78. I try to keep my tubs at 80ish so I don't really think a 5 degree temp difference will be too much of a shock and the little bit of extra heat I think works as a stimulant itself. As I stated before, I have a frog that I think PREFERS when I bath him and he goes like clockwork every 2 weeks in a 80-85 degree bath. He has never pooped out of the water.. he's a strange little fella.

Lol! He has you trained.

[GrifTheGreat]

I do have one. Great idea, im dumber than **** sometimes...lol. So 80ish for the temps for soaking?

Yes, 78° is exact, but 80° is fine.

[Maharg]

Since we've gone this far we might as well clear this up. I still can't comprehend how 78 degrees or even 80 can be considered a warm bath. What temperature do you keep your tank? If it's at 80, would you not consider a warm bath 5 to 10 degrees warmer? Otherwise, what's the point on calling it a warm bath? Really, I'm not trying to stir the pot here. I'm genuinely curious.

[Pluke]

You know I kind of agree with you Maharg, but I think it's all a matter of being careful. I try to keep all my frogs at 80ish in their enclosures (tub rack). The ambient air for them is about 78 at all times and they don't have anywhere to burrow since they're on filter so that's the temperature they stay at. I bath them in 85, which is only 5 degrees warmer, but it's a sudden warmth not a gradual build up. Now... for people who use substrate for them to burrow, you may be pulling a frog out of substrate that's 70 degrees in a tank thats air is 80, throw them into a 15-20 degree different water may shock them. This is just how I think of it.. I haven't had any ill effect and I am happy with the results.

Grif is the first one to tell me to use lukewarm water but I didn't get a exact temp from him at first, so I assumed 85ish. I tried it and it worked. I've been using that temp since, I didn't find out what he considered lukewarm until months after.. I just haven't changed my ways because it's worked and I've had no hinderance to my frogs.

[Maharg]

I certainly don't disagree that shocking a frog is bad for their health. Potentially fatal. Recommending water at 90 is under the assumption that people keep their tank between 80 and 85. So it's really not that big of a jump. And like pluke said, and I mentioned earlier lukewarm is highly debatable. It depends on peoples judgment and even hand sensitivity. Baring in mind 99% of people won't test the temperature of the water before a bath, most people are probably using 90 degree water and not even knowing it.