Heat/Humidity frustration

[Sasha]

I have an 18x18x24 exo tera terrarium for my 3 Whites tree frogs. I use eco earth for the substrate and I have a large piece of drift wood and some fake plants/vines and a piece of bark covered cork as my background. I have a Zoo med hygrotherm and I currently use a fogger to keep the humidity around 69% and I use a heat lamp to control the heat. It has worked pretty good until now. The past two days I've noticed that even though I have the heat on in my house set to 70 degrees, the tank is only getting up to about 73 with one heat lamp. I've added an additional lamp to amp up the heat and right now it's at 77 degrees. With the additional heat lamp my humidity has now tanked and was at 56%. I'm assuming I have to get a UTH. My question is how big does it need to be and where on the tank should it be put? When I had my Exo-tera 12x12x18, I had a small UTH that I attached to the side of the tank. I never really felt like it did the job.

On another note, Skitter has been acting different the past few days and I don't know if it's the whole heat/humidity problem. A few times a day I will find him sitting in his water bowl for over an hour. Normally the water bowl is something he just passes through. Yesterday I caught him sleeping in it and took him out and put him on a leaf. He's eating normal, and I think he's pooping normal too because there was some in the bowl with him this morning and he was the only one in there. I picked him up for an inspection and his coloring looks normal, there was some redness on his legs but I think it was just from him trying to escape my grip.

[Hoppity100]

I'd be careful if too much humidity: maybe frogs get pneumonia...or if too dry, may have difficulty breathing or swallowing?

[HerpDerp]

I highly recommend not getting a UTH. They are really a waste of money. Especially since an 18x18x24 is just over 30 gallons so the UTH would have to be pretty big. Are you sure your heat lamp is still working properly. They do eventually lose effectiveness. If you have a false bottom you could put enough water in it to cover a small aquarium heater. That would probably help both heat and humidity.

Glurmo always gets in the water dish if the humidity drops too low. And he's just a lazy frog, he'll just fall asleep in it sometimes. I used to worry quite a bit but I've learned that if I just leave him be he'll eventually climb out and sleep somewhere else. Can you turn your fogger up or set it to run for longer intervals (sorry I don't know how these things work lol)? Or you could just mist your tank as well to maintain humidity. But the first thing I would check is to make sure your heat lamp is still fully functional.

[Sasha]

Thanks for the advise. I don't have a false bottom but I will check the light. Things were better this morning. Temp was up to 77 and humidity was at 63%. Last night I made sure the humidifier in the house was filled and then refilled it again this morning. The fogger for the tank has been running constantly. The nice thing about the hygrotherm is that you set it to the temp you want and the humidity level you want and then it turns everything on and off as needed.

Skitter was in his water bowl this morning, got out for about 1/2 hour then went back in and closed his eyes! I just left him this time, I figure he will be okay once things get back to normal. I just freak out when they sit in that bowl for so long because that's what Fiona did before she died.

[Hoppity100]

Oh, you're welcome! You have quite a set up! Glad everything is ok.

[deranged chipmunk]

Skitter is most likely reacting to the sudden drop in humidity levels. the real concern is this: if your fogger is running 24/7, why is your humidty only 63%? it should be ridiculously higher.

[deranged chipmunk]

also....you could probably tie a home heating pad onto the tank temporarily until you figure out the problem. they actually don't burn as hot a UTH, but every little bit will help Skitter be more comfortable until it's sorted.

[Sasha]

Skitter is most likely reacting to the sudden drop in humidity levels. the real concern is this: if your fogger is running 24/7, why is your humidty only 63%? it should be ridiculously higher.

I really started thinking about this question and I think I just figured it out. The only thing that is different is that the household humidifier was not filled. Our apartment gets really dry once the temp starts to drop and we have the heat on. We filled it last night before bed and this morning the tank humidity was a little better, I filled it again this morning to make sure that it would last the day and the frog tank actually got up to 69% a few times and the fogger has turned off and on. Right now it's at 66-67%. I may look into getting a table top humidifier for that room but I need to find one that doesn't leave residue on the electronics since the frogs are housed in the game/computer room.

As far as Skitter goes, he was still in the water bowl when I came home for lunch so it was about 5 hours. I took him out, looked him over, and put him on a branch and when I came home from work he was still there. Now he's sitting in his food bowl looking for more crickets to magically appear out of the bottom of the bowl. He seems to like the water in the morning/afternoon hours. We will see what happens tomorrow since I can't come home during the day to check on him.

Oh and their dad brought them home a new lamp with a higher watt bulb. The temp has been steady at 77 degrees. It's looking like things might be okay.

[HerpDerp]

Well this is all good news! I might buy a small humidifier too. My humidity regularly drops to about 45% in my main enclosure during the day. I'm not sure what the humidity is in my quarantine tank since the hydrometer isn't working. So I just make sure I keep it well misted in there. I don't have a fogger or anything so I mist like crazy in the morning before work and then again when I get back and throughout the evening. Thankfully I only work 4 hours a day so it never drops too much. But a humidifier would sure help! I also have a ceramic heat emitter I'm going to start using once I get my strip light back from the quarantine tank. Right now I'm using an incandescent bulb in my main tank and it does a great job of drying it out!

Skitter might just be going through a spell were he likes being in the water bowl. Like I said, Glurmo is so lazy he sometimes just falls asleep in the water bowl and will stay there unless he's moved or woken up. Some frogs are just lazy!

[Hoppity100]

Just wanted you to know, in my tank the water is the moisture source and I can make humidity by covering part of the top with plastic over part of the lid. I always leave part open so they get air. We are into colder weather now so I cover it this way if the temp is down at night (I know its the outdoor temp) but, even though the furnace runs, I notice a difference inside the house especially when I get up in the morning. My water has a small submersible heater at 76 degrees, so, I get humidity for them if they spend too much time in the water I know they might not be warm enough. Hope this helped.

[deranged chipmunk]

Glurmo....hee hee....LOVE that name....lol

Patsy....this is a dumb question, but what's the water level inside the tank? if it is too high, humidity can drop, too low, the same. has the water level in the tank changed at all throughout this deal?

[Sasha]

Well this is all good news! I might buy a small humidifier too. My humidity regularly drops to about 45% in my main enclosure during the day. I'm not sure what the humidity is in my quarantine tank since the hydrometer isn't working. So I just make sure I keep it well misted in there. I don't have a fogger or anything so I mist like crazy in the morning before work and then again when I get back and throughout the evening. Thankfully I only work 4 hours a day so it never drops too much. But a humidifier would sure help! I also have a ceramic heat emitter I'm going to start using once I get my strip light back from the quarantine tank. Right now I'm using an incandescent bulb in my main tank and it does a great job of drying it out!

Skitter might just be going through a spell were he likes being in the water bowl. Like I said, Glurmo is so lazy he sometimes just falls asleep in the water bowl and will stay there unless he's moved or woken up. Some frogs are just lazy!

Michelle, I live close to work so I work 4 hours, come home for lunch work another 4 hours and then come home. It's nice because it helps me obsess over the tanks more LOL! The fogger has been a godsend because on the timer it turns on and off. It usually keeps the humidity at a good level and the substrate doesn't get saturated. Thanks for assuring me that sleeping in the water bowl is okay. I've noticed there is a pattern to his madness so since he is eating, I've watched him shed with no problems and he just took a big poop, I am going to try and let him be his goofy self!

Just wanted you to know, in my tank the water is the moisture source and I can make humidity by covering part of the top with plastic over part of the lid. I always leave part open so they get air.

Hoppity, I actually thought about putting plastic over the top of the tank. Unfortunately, With the lights sitting right on top of the tank there's not much room left for plastic. When I had my quarantine tank set up I put a wet washcloth and covered with plastic and it worked pretty good.

Glurmo....hee hee....LOVE that name....lol

Patsy....this is a dumb question, but what's the water level inside the tank? if it is too high, humidity can drop, too low, the same. has the water level in the tank changed at all throughout this deal?

Bill, the only water I have in my tank is in their water bowl. I have the fogger and I mist a few times during the day. I don't have real plants. My original plan for this tank was to put real plants in it but got scared off when Fiona died. I had put some potted plants in her tank (that were cleaned real good and growing in distilled water weeks before I put them in the tank) and got worried that might have contributed to her getting sick.

[deranged chipmunk]

gotcha. that explains to me why the humidity is so low. if you have a piece of plexi lying around, you can cover part of the top with that to hold the humidity in and it won't be affected by your lighting. you can actually put your lights on it.

[Hoppity100]

Yep, don't put plastic near a light source. What kind of light do you have? Do you turn it off at night? Instead of a water bowl, try putting water in the tank. Its instant moisture then you would not need a fogger. With your light and fogger you are making more work for yourself. I don't know why people use a bowl instead of adding water to the tank. I thought that was what a tank was for. Frogs and toads like to swim in water, not sit in a bowl. Your frog does not have a choice but to sit. He can't talk to you. Frogs/toads should have the option of being able to swim OR get on land. Mine are happy this way. You should try it, see what your frog does.

[Hoppity100]

Sasha, he's probably sleeping in the water bowl because he needs more water in case he wants to swim. How small or large is your bowl? Why don't you have water in your tank? And you put potted plants in that were meant for a fish aquarium? Yeah, sounds like your frog would like more water to frolic in like mine do. If you put water in tank with added land areas you might see a difference in your frog. Then you would not need a fogger or even a hood light. Something must not be making your frog happy. He might be depressed over being in a bowl of water.

[Hoppity100]

The humidity is low from not having enough water. Add enough water and you won't need a fogger. Frog sounds unhappy.

[deranged chipmunk]

Yep, don't put plastic near a light source. What kind of light do you have? Do you turn it off at night? Instead of a water bowl, try putting water in the tank. Its instant moisture then you would not need a fogger. With your light and fogger you are making more work for yourself. I don't know why people use a bowl instead of adding water to the tank. I thought that was what a tank was for. Frogs and toads like to swim in water, not sit in a bowl. Your frog does not have a choice but to sit. He can't talk to you. Frogs/toads should have the option of being able to swim OR get on land. Mine are happy this way. You should try it, see what your frog does.

hoppity, your's are fbt's, which love to be IN the water. Skitter is a white's tree frog. while they like water, they do not spend much time in it. even with 30 gallons (usable volume) of water in my paludarium, the frogs rarely go in it. sure, they go for a swim now and then, but nothing like fbt's.

[Hoppity100]

Okay, maybe it would like shallow water with alot of land and tree branches and driftwood. Maybe the bowl is not big enough. I know FB's like water and this is a different frog. But if the frog could talk it could speak for itself.

[deranged chipmunk]

gotcha. that explains to me why the humidity is so low. if you have a piece of plexi lying around, you can cover part of the top with that to hold the humidity in and it won't be affected by your lighting. you can actually put your lights on it.

forgot to add that this wouldn't be safe if you are using higher powered incandescent lighting for heat.
also, how much coco is in the bottom of the tank. and when you touch it, is it dry to the touch? or moist. you can get away without water in the tank, but you need to make sure the coco fiber is dampish. with your set up, THAT is your humidity retention. kind of like a pacman viv. if your substrate feels dry, mist it heavily. how often do you need to drain the tank? and btw, a pic is worth a thousand words here. can you post one of your viv so we can maybe get a better grasp of this?

[Hoppity100]

Yeah, good idea. The water bowl should be 6-8" and 4-5" deep.