Problem with Albino Pacman Frog

[Casualties138]

I have an albino pacman frog, and he keeps flipping on his back. I heard this could be due to stress, but i dont know why it is happening all of a sudden. Ive had him for a few years and everything is still the same.

10 gallon tank
1 albino pacman frog
humidity 70-80%
80-87 degrees on one side, about 10 degrees lower on the other
decholrinated water
coco husk substrate
live plants, water dish, heat lamp, light, automatic mister
eats crickets
gets vitamins and calcium, a mixture of both at each feeding
light on during the day off at night
heat lamp
eats once or twice a week
pooping fine
just cleaned the tank

what could be wrong?

[BuckeyeHerp]

I would switch to coconut fiber. The husk/bark may be irritating the skin of your frog. Everything else seems in order.

[infamouschris7]

I had that same problem with my frog months ago. I did the soaks in pedialyte and honey backs and he seemed to get better. Also I had taken him to the vet because he was severely impacted and the vet said he also may have had an infection. She gave him antibiotics and soon got better. Now he eats and does everything normal.

Are u familiar with the soaks?

[Maharg]

You seem to be doing everything right. I feel bad I can't offer advice. I know it's stressful when vet bills are so high but you can't pinpoint anything wrong on your own because husbandry seems perfect.

[Casualties138]

in regards to the soaking, i think im familiar, dechlorinated water with a drop of honey in it right? should i warm the water up first?

and to be more specific in regards to the substrate, its plantation soil bricks from the pet store and i use dechlorinated water when expanding the bricks.

[flybyferns]

I have an albino pacman frog, and he keeps flipping on his back. I heard this could be due to stress, but i dont know why it is happening all of a sudden. Ive had him for a few years and everything is still the same.

10 gallon tank
1 albino pacman frog
humidity 70-80%
80-87 degrees on one side, about 10 degrees lower on the other
decholrinated water
coco husk substrate
live plants, water dish, heat lamp, light, automatic mister
eats crickets
gets vitamins and calcium, a mixture of both at each feeding
light on during the day off at night
heat lamp
eats once or twice a week
pooping fine
just cleaned the tank

what could be wrong?

Frog Forum member 'GrifTheGreat' can help you ! Hopefully they will see this or you could PM. They would never steer you wrong. Their advice is always based on their well informed , practical knowledge, and judgment that we all need sometimes to get through these situations in a safe way for the Pac.

Lynn

[Bruce]

4
questions:
1) what kind of live plants are you using? Some can be toxic
2) is he solely eating crickets?
3) is there a background around 3 sides of the tank? Sometimes stress can cause the frogs to flip and if the enclosure is in a high traffic area, that may be the cause. A background will keep him feeling secure
4) are you mixing the vitamins and calcium together? The only supplement I know of that's formulated for this is Repashy Calcium Plus. Otherwise, the calcium can prevent from vitamins and minerals from vein absorbed properly, and vise versa. Try using the vitamins once a week and the calcium every other feeding, and not at the same time!

Lynn is right, Grif should be able to help further!

[MatthewM1]

V

in regards to the soaking, i think im familiar, dechlorinated water with a drop of honey in it right? should i warm the water up first?

I've also heard letting them soak in warm dechlorinated water with unflavored pedeolite mixe at a 10:1 ratio(10oz water to 1oz pedeolite

[Heatheranne]

Yes, the pedialyte soak is as above. Soak for about 15 minutes. Use dechlorinated water to dilute the pedialyte.

Has the frog had more attention or handling than usual? Any changes in the tank arrangement? How often do you change your substrate? Do you leave any uneaten crickets in his tank after he eats?

How about some photos? This may help us to determine why he is flipping.

[GrifTheGreat]

Answer the questions that Bruce and Heatheranne have posted and take some pics of the frog and its enclosure then post them here for us to see.

I have a question that no one has asked yet so I'm going to. Do you have 3 sides of the enclosure covered with some sort of natural background or dark background so that the frog can't see out everywhere making it feel insecure and exposed? If not then do so and provide the baths mentioned above. The Pedialyte bath must be UNFLAVORED PEDIALYTE. prepare a bath of Luke warm de-chlorinated water and for every 10 ounces of water add one ounce of the Pedialyte. Make sure the bath is no deeper than up to the frogs chin. Go ahead and add 3 drops of honey to the bath as well. Soak for the duration mentioned in another post above.

As the bath cools have another Luke warm bath ready of the same depth of just plain de-chlorinated water to rinse the honey and Pedialyte off. Pour some of the bath over the frogs back as well ship it soaks.

Follow these methods and keep us posted.

The flipping over is a sign of severe stress so try and keep stress as low as possible after treating the frog.

[Lija]

its plantation soil bricks from the pet store and i use dechlorinated water when expanding the bricks.

you got a lot of advice already, I will address this one. plantation soil is not the same, look for eco each by zoomed, plantation soil has more plant matter that you need to take out in order to minimize impaction risk, eco each is more fine fiber.

[Bruce]

you got a lot of advice already, I will address this one. plantation soil is not the same, look for eco each by zoomed, plantation soil has more plant matter that you need to take out in order to minimize impaction risk, eco each is more fine fiber.

Haven't had experience with plantation soil, so I can't confirm or deny. I hear it was very similar though? Kinda like exo-Terra's version of zoo-med's Eco earth...

[Namio]

I have an albino pacman frog, and he keeps flipping on his back. I heard this could be due to stress, but i dont know why it is happening all of a sudden. Ive had him for a few years and everything is still the same.

coco husk substrate

As recommended previously, change this to EcoEarth Coconut fiber as the substrate.

heat lamp

Heat lamp can cause unnecessary stress to albino pacmans. Must provide a cover for the frog so the light don't shine the light directly on the frog.

eats once or twice a week

I noticed you never mentioned the age or size of the frog. If the frog is less than 2.5 inches it needs to be offered crickets 4 times a week. In other words, it needs to be eating twice as much as the current pace. There's a certain window of growth spurts in animals and if you don't properly nourish it during those spurts its growth will be permanently stunt.

Please provide us with pictures of the frog, when it's in its enclosure "on a normal day" and the age & length of the frog.


On a separate note regarding to mix (or not mix) Calcium with Vitamin:

4) are you mixing the vitamins and calcium together? The only supplement I know of that's formulated for this is Repashy Calcium Plus. Otherwise, the calcium can prevent from vitamins and minerals from vein absorbed properly, and vise versa. Try using the vitamins once a week and the calcium every other feeding, and not at the same time!

I've always been curious about this and I've yet to successfully find a legit source to back this up.

Here's what I found by the manufacturer of Herptivite (vitamin) and Rep-Cal (calcium) (Rep-Cal Supplements):

Dosage: We ask that you mix Rep-Cal with our vitamin supplement Herptivite. If we premixed the products, the "beadlets" of beta carotene in Herptivite may possibly be damaged during manufacturing by the calcium in Rep-Cal. Mix with vegetables, fruits, and pastes approximately 1/2 tablespoon Rep-Cal with 1/2 tablespoon Herptivite per pound of food.
Before feeding insects:
1) Thoroughly mix a 1:1 ratio of Rep-Cal and Herptivite in a plastic bag.
2) Place insects in the bag.
3) Shake slowly until they are completely covered.
No other supplementation is required. Contains no added starch, sugar, soy preservatives, artificial coloring, flavoring, or fragrance. Consult your veterinarian for any special nutritional problems or advice.

Specifically this below brings to my attention that the manufacturer wants us to mix Calcium with Vitamin.

1) Thoroughly mix a 1:1 ratio of Rep-Cal and Herptivite in a plastic bag.

Can someone actually provide a trustworthy source that says otherwise? Like everyone else I am curious about this. I want to find out what's true and what's good or not good for our ectothermic friends.

[Lija]

Haven't had experience with plantation soil, so I can't confirm or deny. I hear it was very similar though? Kinda like exo-Terra's version of zoo-med's Eco earth...

I had plantation soil because for some reason major pet stores here ( petsmart and petland) don't have eco earth anymore. yes it is exo terra version of eco earth, it is similar, but it has a lot of long strings of plant matter that you don't want a frog to ingest, when expanded it is pain to take it all out, not even sure if possible to take it all out.

[GrifTheGreat]

As recommended previously, change this to EcoEarth Coconut fiber as the substrate.


Heat lamp can cause unnecessary stress to albino pacmans. Must provide a cover for the frog so the light don't shine the light directly on the frog.


I noticed you never mentioned the age or size of the frog. If the frog is less than 2.5 inches it needs to be offered crickets 4 times a week. In other words, it needs to be eating twice as much as the current pace. There's a certain window of growth spurts in animals and if you don't properly nourish it during those spurts its growth will be permanently stunt.

Please provide us with pictures of the frog, when it's in its enclosure "on a normal day" and the age & length of the frog.


On a separate note regarding to mix (or not mix) Calcium with Vitamin:


I've always been curious about this and I've yet to successfully find a legit source to back this up.

Here's what I found by the manufacturer of Herptivite (vitamin) and Rep-Cal (calcium) (Rep-Cal Supplements):

Dosage: We ask that you mix Rep-Cal with our vitamin supplement Herptivite. If we premixed the products, the "beadlets" of beta carotene in Herptivite may possibly be damaged during manufacturing by the calcium in Rep-Cal. Mix with vegetables, fruits, and pastes approximately 1/2 tablespoon Rep-Cal with 1/2 tablespoon Herptivite per pound of food.
Before feeding insects:
1) Thoroughly mix a 1:1 ratio of Rep-Cal and Herptivite in a plastic bag.
2) Place insects in the bag.
3) Shake slowly until they are completely covered.
No other supplementation is required. Contains no added starch, sugar, soy preservatives, artificial coloring, flavoring, or fragrance. Consult your veterinarian for any special nutritional problems or advice.

Specifically this below brings to my attention that the manufacturer wants us to mix Calcium with Vitamin.


Can someone actually provide a trustworthy source that says otherwise? Like everyone else I am curious about this. I want to find out what's true and what's good or not good for our ectothermic friends.

As far as I know all evidence is by observation without an exact scientific study being performed otherwise, but with them being separate. it allows their body to absorb each individually and more successfully without having to break them all down at once. if its formulated for it then I'd follow the instructions of the the Repashy and other formulas use separately.

As for Plantation soil it is the same and you can find just as many debris in Eco Earth as the Plantation soil. Both are fine.

EDIT; lights for Albinos must be infrared. Absolutely no daylight or basking spot light bulbs. No bulbs higher than 50 watts and use a lamp that has a dimmer switch to adjust the output of the bulb.

[Casualties138]

thanks for all the advice, ill pick up some pedialyte tomorrow and soak him. For the rest of the questions,

-theres no toxic plants in the tank, i know this for sure, i used to work in a greenhouse
-yes he only eats crickets
-yes there is a background of plants around 3 sides of the tank, and there is not a lot of traffic
-yes i was mixing the vitamins and calcium together, ill change this to one or the other at each feeding, as i said he eats once or twice a week, so would just alternating the 2 between feedings work?
-tank arangement is the same
-i just changed the substrate, i try to every couple weeks (sometimes a bit sooner)

and ill take some pictures and post them tomorrow after he soaks.

-for the lights...i have a daylight on one side and a red heat light on the other, it is a 50 watt as it is nearly impossible to find 40 watt ones where i live. I have no idea why. anyway, so what could i replace the daylight with then? without it the tank is constantly dark (with the exception of the red light which isnt much its really just for heat)

[Kira Hudson]

-for the lights...i have a daylight on one side and a red heat light on the other, it is a 50 watt as it is nearly impossible to find 40 watt ones where i live. I have no idea why. anyway, so what could i replace the daylight with then? without it the tank is constantly dark (with the exception of the red light which isnt much its really just for heat)

the light in the room should be enuf

[Namio]

As far as I know all evidence is by observation without an exact scientific study being performed otherwise, but with them being separate. it allows their body to absorb each individually and more successfully without having to break them all down at once.

It makes sense that feeding the two nutrients separately may allow the frog to absorb them more efficiently. But I believe it takes both calcium and vitamin in order for the frog to process those nutrients, so feeding them together also makes sense. Feeding the two nutrients separately may not allow the frog to process it then, at least not until the other nutrient is applied.

No matter what, I believe either way would work just fine.

[Casualties138]

the light in the room should be enuf

the light in the room is just from the windows and it doesnt really go into the cage as the side of the cage that faces the window has a background covering it.

[Namio]

-theres no toxic plants in the tank, i know this for sure, i used to work in a greenhouse

No offense to you, but folks generally don't learn about what's toxic to amphibians by working at the greenhouse. I'm not arguing that there are toxic plants inside your terrarium. I'm just simply making a point on that the logic may not work there.

-for the lights...i have a daylight on one side and a red heat light on the other, it is a 50 watt as it is nearly impossible to find 40 watt ones where i live. I have no idea why. anyway, so what could i replace the daylight with then? without it the tank is constantly dark (with the exception of the red light which isnt much its really just for heat)

I rely completely on UTH to warm up my terrariums so I'm no expert on light bulbs. The "daylight" is only good for you to view the frog and it serves not much of a purpose (besides providing some UV-B, which is unnecessary since you're providing vitamin dusting already) if it's on almost half a day. In fact, that may cause some stress in horned frogs if they are exposed to direct brightness too much. It makes them feeling like being in an open space and less secure. I would recommend to keep the "daylight" off most of the time unless you want to view the frog. When it comes to the red light providing heating, that's fine, and I do realize you mentioned about having a mister on. However, red light heating may increase evaporation more dramatically than UTH, so please pay more attention on maintaining proper humidity level inside the tank.