Wouldn't this be illegal?

[ejh805]

I was looking at Woodhouse toads and saw this.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but from what I've read, isn't selling wild caught Colorado River toads illegal?

[mikesfrogs]

I was looking at Woodhouse toads and saw this.
Maybe I'm mistaken, but from what I've read, isn't selling wild caught Colorado River toads illegal?

It is illegal but no one can get introuble unless they are caught collecting them. Its hard to prove they are wild caught and thats why they still get away with it.

[ejh805]

There's some pretty big loopholes in these laws :/

[Beardo]

I might be wrong, but isn't it only illegal if the toads come from a certain area (such as Arizona or New Mexico)? I could be totally off base here.....

[ejh805]

I believe you are right.
I was under the impression that the only places they were found wild (for the most part) were these areas though?

[ToadPaparazzi]

In California it is illegal to possess Bufo Alvarius. They have been extirpated from CA. CA Fish and Wildlife has made it illegal to possess in order to protect them from being brought over from AZ (AZ doesn't allow their native herps to be transported out of state). They are also trying to protect any small populations that might be left in CA.

Outside of CA and AZ, it is the responsibility of each state to allow or not allow certain species. Some states do not allow these toads to be kept due to the hallucinogenic properties of their toxin.

[KingCam]

Some states do not allow these toads to be kept due to the hallucinogenic properties of their toxin.

The man is out to get us! DOWN WITH THE MAN! The govt should realize we're all connected spiritually and if we....




....I think I licked my cane toad again, my bad. Ignore me.





LOL JK! I would never lick my toad, I don't think she would like it much.

[ejh805]

The man is out to get us! DOWN WITH THE MAN! The govt should realize we're all connected spiritually and if we....




....I think I licked my cane toad again, my bad. Ignore me.





LOL JK! I would never lick my toad, I don't think she would like it much.

She'd be all like "Hey man, I don't like you that way."

[ejh805]

In California it is illegal to possess Bufo Alvarius. They have been extirpated from CA. CA Fish and Wildlife has made it illegal to possess in order to protect them from being brought over from AZ (AZ doesn't allow their native herps to be transported out of state). They are also trying to protect any small populations that might be left in CA.

Outside of CA and AZ, it is the responsibility of each state to allow or not allow certain species. Some states do not allow these toads to be kept due to the hallucinogenic properties of their toxin.

I just meant selling these toads WC.
WC means that it was probably obtained from within Arizona or New Mexico, and it's illegal to transport the toads out of those states.
Therefore they obtained these toads illegally?

[IrishRonin]

In Ca its illegal to sell any WC animals from the state, If you had 2 WC anything and breed them, you would be able to sell there offspring as CB. Now I'm not sure what is or isn't legal in other states.

[Namio]

In Ca its illegal to sell any WC animals from the state, If you had 2 WC anything and breed them, you would be able to sell there offspring as CB. Now I'm not sure what is or isn't legal in other states.

I would like to add that in California, most amphibian species are illegal to collect in the first place.

WC means that it was probably obtained from within Arizona or New Mexico, and it's illegal to transport the toads out of those states. Therefore they obtained these toads illegally?

To some people, legal or illegal is not the question, but they rather prioritize on making profits. I wonder if there's a federal agency that enforces pet trade laws in the states?

[arielgasca420]

you can get in a lot of trouble if caught with a wild caught Bufo alvarius. The problem is that trade is not closely regulated. You can also be charged with a controlled substance if you intend to harvest the bufotenin by 'milking'. It is not a lick thing, that is a myth. you have to smoke the bufotoxins (a type of DMT) Licking would make you extremely sick. If you have a frog, but no means to use it for the drug then it is only illegal because it is considered endangered if you live in CA. I think it may be legal to only possess in AZ, but I would double check with state laws if you are looking to get one.

[ejh805]

you can get in a lot of trouble if caught with a wild caught Bufo alvarius. The problem is that trade is not closely regulated. You can also be charged with a controlled substance if you intend to harvest the bufotenin by 'milking'. It is not a lick thing, that is a myth. you have to smoke the bufotoxins (a type of DMT) Licking would make you extremely sick. If you have a frog, but no means to use it for the drug then it is only illegal because it is considered endangered if you live in CA. I think it may be legal to only possess in AZ, but I would double check with state laws if you are looking to get one.

That's what I was thinking.
Anyways, no, I'm not looking to get one. Was just looking at other toads and I saw this one. If people want to mess around with DMT, there are MUCH more humane ways of acquiring it. In my opinion, it is incredibly cruel to terrify one of these toads into producing toxin. My state doesn't have any extreme laws on exotic pets. You just can't own native potentially dangerous wildlife like raccoons and coyotes.

[deranged chipmunk]

in all reality, we can discuss legalities until the end of time. the fact of the matter is not really whether or not it is illegal, the problem is enforcement. unless there is a complaint filed, it will continue. heck, they can make it a freaking constitutional amendment, but who is going to enforce it? the E.P.A.? your local SPCA? they barely have enough funding for the jobs they are currently doing (sort of). and all those loop holes are a joke. for example, a friend of mine saw online that he could buy a baby alligator. problem is, he lives in NJ and they are illegal to purchase and own without a permit. however, i live 3 miles from him, but in PA. of course he asked me to purchase it for him (legal to buy/purchase in PA) and drive it over the bridge to his house. really, who is going to know? and of course, really, the only law i am breaking is transporting the animal over state lines without a permit. i think it's like a $500.00 fine or something like that. he did all the research. so, the short of it is, the gator comes in tuesday. lol seriously, i would never do that, but you can see how easily these folk get away with it.

[arielgasca420]

DMT is sometimes difficult to come by, depending on your region. In CA it is easy to find, but I have never actively searched for it. the only other ways to get it besides bufotenin is by ayahuasca and psilocybin. I wouldn't recommend DMT. it occurs naturally in your brain and will release itself when you die. why ruin the surprise?

[ejh805]

the only other ways to get it besides bufotenin is by ayahuasca and psilocybin. I wouldn't recommend DMT. it occurs naturally in your brain and will release itself when you die. why ruin the surprise?

It also occurs naturally in the root bark of the mimosa tree. It grows like a weed where I live. But to acquire it you have to go through this lengthy purification process to actually get the DMT out of the root bark into a useable state. I just know this because I read A LOT. I've known people who have done it intending to use it as a spiritual experience to get closer to their god figure, or to whichever being/state/interconnection they believe in and were better people afterwards for it. I've also known people who did it just because it was another drug to get them high. They all said something to the effect of it being the most frightening experience they'd ever had. Sort of like mother nature kicking their ***** because they disrespected something as powerful as that.

[Grasspupper]

in all reality, we can discuss legalities until the end of time. the fact of the matter is not really whether or not it is illegal, the problem is enforcement. unless there is a complaint filed, it will continue. heck, they can make it a freaking constitutional amendment, but who is going to enforce it? the E.P.A.? your local SPCA? they barely have enough funding for the jobs they are currently doing (sort of). and all those loop holes are a joke. for example, a friend of mine saw online that he could buy a baby alligator. problem is, he lives in NJ and they are illegal to purchase and own without a permit. however, i live 3 miles from him, but in PA. of course he asked me to purchase it for him (legal to buy/purchase in PA) and drive it over the bridge to his house. really, who is going to know? and of course, really, the only law i am breaking is transporting the animal over state lines without a permit. i think it's like a $500.00 fine or something like that. he did all the research. so, the short of it is, the gator comes in tuesday. lol seriously, i would never do that, but you can see how easily these folk get away with it.

Enforcement of exotic animal ownership falls under the state's USDA department of APHIS ( animal protection and health inspection services), but you're right, they don't have the funding and especially the man power to do their jobs properly.

[arielgasca420]

It also occurs naturally in the root bark of the mimosa tree. It grows like a weed where I live. But to acquire it you have to go through this lengthy purification process to actually get the DMT out of the root bark into a useable state. I just know this because I read A LOT. I've known people who have done it intending to use it as a spiritual experience to get closer to their god figure, or to whichever being/state/interconnection they believe in and were better people afterwards for it. I've also known people who did it just because it was another drug to get them high. They all said something to the effect of it being the most frightening experience they'd ever had. Sort of like mother nature kicking their ***** because they disrespected something as powerful as that.

i wanted to expand further to what you already mentioned...
The "mimosa tree" is used in the ayahuasca blend. It is a slow process that takes place in south america. It has become a tourist trend, but you need approval to partake in the ceremony. Any use outside of the tribe is considered a disrespect to the sacred awakening and can sometimes produce fatal or unholy events. I have become very interested in this because although it is illegal here, the people are protected by their government to use it in religious practices. I do not see anything wrong with it, but if people are using it as recreational then something bad is bound to happen.
there are a few mimosa trees out there, which makes common names difficult in horticulture. the kind we have here in the U.S. are also called mimosa or silk trees but those are Albizia julibrissin. they have pink flowers and are invasive. the mimosa tree you mentioned for ayahuasca is the Mimosa tenuiflora which has white flowers. In my horticulture class we do not go over much about drug uses in plant, we focus more on physical characteristics so it is very common that Albizia julibrissin can have some euphoric effects since they are in the Fabaceae family, but on the other hand they are different genus.
too be honest though, I think the kind that grow in AL are A. julibrissin.
you can also get DMT through psilocybin, which is easily grown in my town. we have a lot of cows in the area so the mushrooms are easy to find. I still wouldnt trust ingesting a mushroom from a cow patty. :P

[arielgasca420]

Enforcement of exotic animal ownership falls under the state's USDA department of APHIS ( animal protection and health inspection services), but you're right, they don't have the funding and especially the man power to do their jobs properly.

It does not surprise me that this is lowly regulated. We cannot even get our FDA to regulate our drugs and food properly.
I personally would not gamble with it. there are some really cool pets out there, but I am not willing to break any sort of law or regulation just to obtain it. (even if I could get away with it)

[Grasspupper]

Unfortunately not everyone feels this way. It breaks my heart to find out that some one has illegally obtained an exotic wild animal that is endangered or extinct in the wild. What's worse that sometimes, they don't see anything wrong with it.