2 new ADFs floating and climbing out of water

[froglett]

I got fed up trying to feed the frogs with platies in the tank, so I've moved the platies to another tank and bought 2 new frogs.
I now have 5 ADF in uk15 gallon.

My other 3 frogs seem happier since I took the platies out earlier this evening and put the new frogs in.
They used to hide a lot, but now they've been exploring the tank more and sitting on the plastic plants for longer.
I also didn't have to wiggle food in their face to get them to eat before the fish did. They found their own food and ate a relaxed meal of brine shrimp.

Im a bit concerned about the new additions though. I didn't see them eat. One has been floating with arms and legs spread around the water surface for hours, occasionally stopping to rest on a plant. Looking relaxed but very different to the original frogs who never did that (maybe because of the fish?)
The other new frog has been doing this too, but then climbed out on top of the filter. I lowered the water level in the tank but she's still got ontop again and has been there ages. The gaps in the lid are already covered but im worried she'll dry out.
I've been dripping water on her from the tank every so often to keep her moist.
Is this normal? Neither new frog looks Ill and they are bigger and probably older than the others.

I think the 2 new ones are girls. My old ones are 2 boys I think, and possibly one girl.
The old frogs look happy and I've just tested for ammonia and it was zero.

The past couple days one of the old boys was hiding at the top of a plant with his nose sticking out of the water and he wasn't eating as far as I could tell. But he's acting fine now the platies have been moved.

The new frogs were in a tank in the shop with newts. I thought they weren't compatible?

I'd appreciate your thoughts.

ETA. Apologies for the edits. Im trying to type on my phone and predictive text is a nightmare

[froglett]

Oh no! Just checked on the floating one and he was floating upside down hardly moving on the surface.

The other one was still on the filters so I gently pushed him off and he immediate started floating on his back too!

They're still barelybarely alive but im putting them into quarantine.
Im really worried that they've got that deadly frog disease and have infected my frogs.

Stupid me not quarantining first :[

[froglett]

I have put the new frogs in another tank with a filter and heater. It's not cycled but they're not moving anyway. They're still alive but floating on the top in the corners. I know this is not ideal but im sure they must be Ill.

Does this sound like chyrid fungus? They we're in the tank for about 7 hrs.
Looking closely at them their stomachs look a bit bloodshot. One had a red mark on her hand but I thought maybe a newt had nipped her.

I've done a partial water change on my tank. How.else can I try and protect my old frogs?

[froglett]

woke this morning and both frogs were dead. floating upright against plasyic plants. they hadn't moved position since last night.
when I poked them to check they were dead they both floated and landed upside down.

I'm confused about what happened to them because they were both on the bottom of a relatively shallow well planted tank in the aquatic shop.
they were the only frogs left in a tank crammed with newts.

what does it sound like they died of? and are my other frogs at risk?

I know they were in a uncycled tank lasf night which is very bad. but they did look almost dead at that point anyway.

[mpmistr]

Hard to say, Ammonia at 0ppm is good but you need to test Nitrite and Nitrates too. Nitrites are actually more toxic than Ammonia.

If they were kept with Newts than that could have caused a problem, many Newts are toxic, long exposure to their toxins certainly could cause damage and shorten their life spans significantly. (this is just a guess, however)

If your LFS is mixing amphibian species that is kind of a bad sign... a LFS here had a vivarium with fire bellied toads, bullfrog tadpoles, african dwarf frogs all in one tank.. thankfully they've moved these species to separate tanks recently.. (but they don't carry bullfrog tadpoles anymore which is kind of a bummer..).

[froglett]

I'm taking a sample of my water to the lfs today to try and get a refund. they offered replacements but I really don't want to buy anything else from them.
my frogs seem fine atm but I'm really worried its that chytrid fungus that shows no symptoms for weeks or months.
when I examined the dead frogs bodies they both had skin that looked bumpy and ready to shed. one had a patch of skin missing from its back.

they were only put in a couple of inches of water in the sealed plastic bag to be transported home though.
would that cause an issue? my others were in much deeper water when bagged for the trip home.

[rodsboys]

It is hard to say what exactly the issue is. My guess is prolonged toxin exposure and a shock when added to a clean system at your place OR chytrid fungus. You will know in a few weeks if it is the latter of the two as your other frogs were exposed long enough to be infected. The desire to escape the water, the floating, lifelessness, and the torn skin have me fearing it may well be chytrid. I had 2 devastating bouts with it in past years. All of my losses were new colonies in the quarantine phase though.

[froglett]

I got a refund from the lfs and they said the frogs died because my ph is low (they tested my water).
everything was fine except the ph which was 6 point something. I've now put crushed coral sand in old tights in my filter to raise the ph. I'm not convinced that was the cause though.

my frog Kyle (who was the one hiding at the top of the plants days ago) has since started climbing out of the water onto the filter.
I've noticed tonight that he has a red sore looking patch on his stomach. he's always at the top now either trying to climb out or sticking his head out of the water.
is it worth quarantIning him? wouldnt they all have caught whatever it is by now? should I treat them and with what?

[mpmistr]

I got a refund from the lfs and they said the frogs died because my ph is low (they tested my water).
everything was fine except the ph which was 6 point something. I've now put crushed coral sand in old tights in my filter to raise the ph. I'm not convinced that was the cause though.

my frog Kyle (who was the one hiding at the top of the plants days ago) has since started climbing out of the water onto the filter.
I've noticed tonight that he has a red sore looking patch on his stomach. he's always at the top now either trying to climb out or sticking his head out of the water.
is it worth quarantIning him? wouldnt they all have caught whatever it is by now? should I treat them and with what?

Low pH? What is your pH? The biggest question would be what is the pH difference from the LFS compared to your tap water at home.

The best pH is a stable pH.. doing drastic things to change pH is not a good idea.. it would be far easier to adjust your frogs to your water's pH.

If this was a pH issue the best thing to do would be to acclimate the frogs to the pH of your water, preferably using the drip method.

Was this tank fully cycled?

[froglett]

yeah. it was fully cycled before i put the frogs in. the platies were in there for about a week prior and it was cycled then too.

the ph of the tank is 6.6. pure out of the tap its 7. the shop said there's was 7.5.
I did leave the frogs in the bag for a bit before putting them in and gradually added more of my water to the bag.
I've only just put the crushed coral in.

eta. the frog is now floating on the surface arms and legs spread like the others did. he's been in there for about 3 weeks and was fine until very recently

[froglett]

he died. he was fighting to stay right way up but ended up floating onto his back. having a convulsion and dying.
the sore looked kinda like lump where his stomach is.
is there anything I can do to save the others. the other 2 look like they're shedding. very ragged. Kyle who died today didn't look like that.

[mpmistr]

I would say that something is very very wrong with the water or these are very very sickly frogs you purchased. A drastic pH change could certainly cause death. I am wondering why your pH drops to 6.6 when it comes from the tap at 7?

[froglett]

I have no idea. my husband tested the water just out of the tap and it was 7. in the tank it tested 6.6 .
I've only just put the coral sand in the filter tonight.
I don't think there's anything else in the tank to change the ph . just inert play sand. plastic plants and spongebob run of the mill tank ornaments.
the ammonia is zero and the nitrite and nitrate are fine (my husband tested the water earlier this evening). temp is about 24 degrees.

the shops round here have all had issues getting hold of adfs recently. maybe there are health issues with stock?

[mpmistr]

Well here's my take on this.

First changing your water chemistry is probably a waste of time. these frogs tolerate pH of 6.5 to 7.5 -- stable pH = best pH.

Since these frogs are very tolerant of various pH levels I would slowly acclimate these frogs to your water, because maintaining a high pH when you have soft water is going to be harder than simply acclimating the frogs to the water, IMO..

I have to ask about the comment of "nitrites and nitrates are fine" because nitrite must be 0 <anything higher than zero is toxic, more toxic than ammonia> and nitrate should be lower than 20ppm. Keep in mind that in soft water nitrite is more toxic, but a properly cycled aquarium should have no measurable nitrites

Is there anything in the tank that could cause stress, fish? Anything else out of the ordinary going on in this tank?

[froglett]

just asked hubby. this evening it was ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrite 5 . my husband has kept marine fish for years so he's good with water chemistry. knows very little about frogs unfortunately .

the filter is a interpet pf1 internal rated up to 68 litres on a 64 litre tank. the flow is low and directed towards the glass.

I had 5 platies in there but moved them when putting the 2 new frogs in because they made feeding hard work.

can't think of any thing that would stress them

[gemzjames]

hi

Do you leave the water to stand in the tank when a full water change has been done or do you put any chemical into the water before the frogs go bak into the tank? the reson why im asking because i was just wondering what the chlorine content of the water was like where you lived? I used to live in the mountains and my water came directly from that so I didnt have to worry about chlorine there, but now I live in Plymouth and I use this thing called 'Tapsafe' from interpet which neutralises the water of any chlorine etc and makes it safe for the frogs and they have responded really well to it. are your Xenopus Laevis? where did you get them from in the UK - what pet shop was it?
I know these are stupid questions, but were all the ornaments and plants and sand rinsed well before they were placed in the tank?
Gem

[rodsboys]

I got a refund from the lfs and they said the frogs died because my ph is low (they tested my water).
everything was fine except the ph which was 6 point something. I've now put crushed coral sand in old tights in my filter to raise the ph. I'm not convinced that was the cause though.

my frog Kyle (who was the one hiding at the top of the plants days ago) has since started climbing out of the water onto the filter.
I've noticed tonight that he has a red sore looking patch on his stomach. he's always at the top now either trying to climb out or sticking his head out of the water.
is it worth quarantIning him? wouldnt they all have caught whatever it is by now? should I treat them and with what?

I didn't bother reading the post after this one yet, but had to reply to this. It pisses me off when stores try to play that card. PH is an insignificant factor compared to stability. There are people breeding discus in 8.3 PH here because they maintain constant good water parameters. Did these *******s offer to show you what the PH is in the store tank? I doubt it. Glad they gave you your money back. Don't go there anymore. It sounds like you have a case of chytrid based on your other frogs starting to do the same stuff. There is a treatment for it. You can still save the last two. I will have to dig it up and post it here for you in a bit.
Take that stupid crushed coral out by all means, your PH is perfectly fine.

[mpmistr]

Yes, fighting the pH of your water is a waste of time. Unless you have expensive fish with VERY specific needs (read: Discus) you are just going to fight a losing battle on pH.. most aquarium bred fish and especially aquatic frogs are very adaptable to any normal range of pH (6.5 to 7.5).

I am not familiar with chytrid but that could very easily explain what is happening here. Did you not also have an ADF with a foot that rotted off?? That has to be chytrid of something particularly nasty..

[froglett]

hi

Do you leave the water to stand in the tank when a full water change has been done or do you put any chemical into the water before the frogs go bak into the tank? the reson why im asking because i was just wondering what the chlorine content of the water was like where you lived? I used to live in the mountains and my water came directly from that so I didnt have to worry about chlorine there, but now I live in Plymouth and I use this thing called 'Tapsafe' from interpet which neutralises the water of any chlorine etc and makes it safe for the frogs and they have responded really well to it. are your Xenopus Laevis? where did you get them from in the UK - what pet shop was it?
I know these are stupid questions, but were all the ornaments and plants and sand rinsed well before they were placed in the tank?
Gem

I always use water safe. I thought all tap water has chlorine so I wouldn't risk not using it.
the sand was well washed. didn't bother with the ornaments tbh. didn't think they'd have anything lethal on them from sitting on a shelf in a shop.
I got one frog from pets at home, the 2 others I have now from a local independent. and the 2 that died also come from an independent. both independent shops have a good rep for marine fish and reptiles. I thought they'd be good with amphibians too. and these are African dwarf frogs, not xenopus.

[froglett]

thanks. I'm sure its a disease rather than my water. I mentioned chytrid to him but he said if they had that they'd be in a tank with a sign being treated. everything I've read about chytrid suggests you can't treat the tank as a whole. the guy obviously knew nothing about frogs.