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Thread: Sick Pacman

  1. #1
    nev
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    Unhappy Sick Pacman

    Hi everyone, I am new here, been looking around trying to get some information and was hoping someone may help.
    My Pacman is 4 years old and is the size of a baseball, he has always been extremely healthy.
    He is housed in a 10 gallon tank with a corner water dish, Eco earth coconut fiber substrate, has a hanging plant on the side of tank, a glass top and his light.
    I keep it spayed down so he has humidity. He started out with calcium dusted crickets and then onto pinkies, hoppers and now he eats mice.
    He was always quite an aggressive eater, he has one mouse per week. I change his substrate every two weeks and remove poop when I see it.
    I have seen these guys get the metabolic calcium deficiency, when their legs stretch backwards and they seize up so I do not think that is our problem.
    So, Toxic Out Syndrome came to mind so I kept soaking him and changing the water every four hours and that was last week, it seemed that he recovered.
    Yesterday it started again, he is twitching and spazeming and I keep soaking him and a milky substance is coming from his butt, it seems that after he is in his water for a while, he will get out and he will bury himself and be ok...then a little while later he starts again. I want to get him through the night so I can try to get him to the doctor tomorrow.
    Does anyone have any suggestions?
    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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  3. #2
    infamouschris7
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    A mouse a week sounds crazy. Mice depending on size shouldn't be fed more than once a month. Your not giving your frog enough time to digest the entire mouse. The substrate should be change once a month. Every two weeks is probably stressing him out. I would suggest raising the temperature if possible to around 85 degrees with high humidity.

  4. #3
    100+ Post Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    I'm sorry your baby isn't feeling well What are your temps and humidity? Is he still eating? Mice should be limited to one per month because they are fattening and from what I have learned, the frogs don't digest animal proteins very easily. Nightcrawlers are a better staple. Are you dusting food items with calcium and vitamins? I don't know much about frog illnesses but I will try to help as much as I can.


  5. #4
    nev
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    Quote Originally Posted by infamouschris7 View Post
    A mouse a week sounds crazy. Mice depending on size shouldn't be fed more than once a month. Your not giving your frog enough time to digest the entire mouse. The substrate should be change once a month. Every two weeks is probably stressing him out. I would suggest raising the temperature if possible to around 85 degrees with high humidity.
    It is a small mouse...the pet store told me weekly is when he should be fed and I thought it was ok because he has had regular BM's and he has been eating like this for 2 years now.
    I was so worried about him sitting in toxins that I wanted to make sure his tank was cleaned.
    He is in a humid environment in the 80's, I spreay it daily and change his water daily also, I hope he pulls through tonight and if he makes it I will certainly change his feeding and cleaning regimen.
    I appreciate your input.

  6. #5
    nev
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    Thanks Sherry...it seems that his feeding may be the answer and maybe tank cleaning stressing him out.
    Because you are the second person who told me I am feeding him too quickly.
    He is in a humid environment in the 80's, I have a glass top on it to hold in the humidity, the screened top was too dry.
    I hope he is ok in the morning, if so he will go to the vet.

  7. #6
    100+ Post Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    You are welcome! I try to help when I can I hope your baby makes it through the night so he can go to the doctor. Keep me updated on his progress. If you ever have questions about anything we would be happy to help! Maybe when he is feeling better you can post some pics? We love pics here! Good luck!


  8. #7
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    then I'll be the next person to tell you - never ever feed pacman mice as a staple, only as treat no more then once a month, 4y old is about time when consequences are starting to come out. It seems some kind of neuro damage is happening to him. hope he'll pull it through and I'm glad you are going to the vet.

    as for pet store advices.... i better not go into it, too many threads on here on a topic, too many frog deaths and problems, to summarize - never listen to pet store people and do your own research.

    what kind of water are you using? what are the temps? why are you soaking him in a water changing it every 4 hours? did i get the last part right? would you post pic of the enclosure and the frog.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  9. #8
    nev
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    Quote Originally Posted by Lija View Post
    then I'll be the next person to tell you - never ever feed pacman mice as a staple, only as treat no more then once a month, 4y old is about time when consequences are starting to come out. It seems some kind of neuro damage is happening to him. hope he'll pull it through and I'm glad you are going to the vet.

    as for pet store advices.... i better not go into it, too many threads on here on a topic, too many frog deaths and problems, to summarize - never listen to pet store people and do your own research.

    what kind of water are you using? what are the temps? why are you soaking him in a water changing it every 4 hours? did i get the last part right? would you post pic of the enclosure and the frog.
    Hi Lija...I have well water that does not have any chemicals, I also do not have a water softener. I was soaking him because as I was researching his symptoms pointed to Toxic Out Syndrome and that is what seem to be reccomended, it looked like it was helping because a milky white subtance was coming from his butt, but I I really have no idea. Temps are in the 80's, it is humid, Let me see if I can get some pics for you.
    Thank you )

  10. #9
    100+ Post Member Sunshine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    Are you dechlorinating his water? Well water still has lots of heavy metals and chloramines in it which are toxic.


  11. #10
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    I would cut back on the mice. If its Four years old, and depending on whether its a male or a female, only needs to eat once every ten to fourteen days. Change things up with a trip to the store once every couple of weeks and get some nightcrawlers or crickets, or some healthy looking fish (avoid the cheap feeder fish tanks) Cut the mice back to once a month.

    If you change your bedding every two weeks, then you should consider checking out the conditions of your water and also whether or not the coco fiber is getting soggy.

  12. #11
    nev
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

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    Here is Tubby...he also has a ZooMed under tank heater as well as his lamp. He has stopped twitching now and he is sitting in his water now, When he gets out I will change the water again. I left it like this so you can see that white stuff in the corner, it comes out of his rear and is not skin, could that be toxins?

  13. #12
    nev
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    Thank you for the help, I appreciate your input.

  14. #13
    nev
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    I have a PUR water filter on the faucet

  15. #14
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    100 percent humidity is far too high and may be contributing to your problem. You should use a screen top and add a cork bark hide.

    Your frog also looks quite bloated, and I would say you are certainly over feeding.

  16. #15
    nev
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    I am not sure of the sex...I just refer to him as a male. He never makes any noise..I never hear croaking or anything else.
    I can try nightcrawlers but he will not go for crickets or fish, I have tried both.
    I always make sure the environment is humid and never soggy, if I spill water in there when I replace his dish I just pick out the saturated material.
    Have always used this same substrate, I have never changed anything because he has always been healthy and never had any illness, I am wondering if he is just getting old, I have read they can live for about 5 years, is that correct?
    Any thoughts on that white stuff coming out of his rear?
    Thank you )

  17. #16
    nev
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    OK...I still have the screen, I will replace it and can try the other substrate.
    I will see what the doctor says tomorrow...Thanks.

  18. #17
    infamouschris7
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    Quote Originally Posted by nev View Post
    I have a PUR water filter on the faucet
    I also have a PUR water filter and ill drop some dechlorinator in the water still

  19. #18
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    any news from a vet?

    i agree with Ra - Tubby looks bloated, which may be partly because of what he was eating and partly because of the water. You need to get water conditioner for reptiles/amphibians and use it- well or tap water doesn't matter.
    as well - is you glass cover completely covering top? they need humidity, but also need to airflow, not as much as for example waxy frogs, but top can't be completely covered. and another thing - where is the location of UTH, you said you're using it, but I don't see it in the pic, if it is under tank you need to attach it to the side.

    not related to your current problems but it seems that water bowl is too deep for him or may be it is just angle on the pic.

    milky substance can be his urine that has changed because of him being overfed with mice, it is called fatty kidney disease, but given he is obese he probably have bunch of other problems. I'm keeping my fingers crossed he will be ok.
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  20. #19
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sick Pacman

    Can you get a picture of the frog's cloaca? It looked like there was some irritation. It may just be the picture, idk. When was the last time he pooped? You may have already said and I just missed it.
    This might be a bit gross, but have you noticed any sort of smell from him? With your frog excreting white liquid I might worry about infection (most intestinal bacteria have a very distinct odor). It's more likely a kidney problem like Lija said, but if it were an infection that advanced you'd want to get antibiotics ASAP

    Another side effect of feeding too many mice is liver problems. Since he looks like he might be toxing out, there might be something going on with his liver causing him to not be able to filter toxins well.

    I remember a thread a little while back where someone's frog was having seizures from overdosing on a calcium supplement. Could that be part of what is going on here? The frog has been getting a food with calcium in the bones also dusted in calcium...

    btw, I used to have well water. I never used it for my frog because I've had it kill fish before. Also, I have run experiments comparing water bacterial contents, and well water has a LOT of really nasty bugs in it.

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