Wikipedia error or not? (Pacman size)

[Maharg]

It was my understanding that Ornata is the largest readily available Horned Frog. (Argentine)
According to wikipedia tho, ( Surinam horned frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) the Suriname is larger and will even prey on Ornata.

"This species was once considered the same species as*Ceratophrys ornata. This dispute was later settled because the Surinam Horned frog inhabits a different habitat than its SMALLER cousin and does not interbreed with it in the wild (but will do so in captivity). This species has been known to prey upon the other species of horned frog, especially the northern race of*Ceratophrys ornata."

[GrifTheGreat]

It was my understanding that Ornata is the largest readily available Horned Frog. (Argentine)
According to wikipedia tho, ( Surinam horned frog - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) the Suriname is larger and will even prey on Ornata.

"This species was once considered the same species as*Ceratophrys ornata. This dispute was later settled because the Surinam Horned frog inhabits a different habitat than its SMALLER cousin and does not interbreed with it in the wild (but will do so in captivity). This species has been known to prey upon the other species of horned frog, especially the northern race of*Ceratophrys ornata."

The largest Horned Frog species is C. Aurita seconded by C. Ornata. There are some female Auritas that were recorded at 10" SVL. C. Ornata can have females reaching 8" and C. Cornuta females reaching 6". To be exact each species would prey on one another. They are cannibalistic and will eat the same species and the other species if they're hungry and the opportunity were to arise.

[Maharg]

This is what I thought as well. So where the article refers to Ornata as the smaller cousin, it should say larger, correct?
Always knew wiki wasn't to be 100% trusted. Just wanted to confirm.

[GrifTheGreat]

This is what I thought as well. So where the article refers to Ornata as the smaller cousin, it should say larger, correct?
Always knew wiki wasn't to be 100% trusted. Just wanted to confirm.

Well its not necessarily wrong. Ornata have the potential to reach 8", but rarely reach that size. Most only top out at 5.5" to 6". Cornutas can reach 6", but most top out at 4.5" to 5.5".

[Maharg]

Thanks Grif. Was also curious, is the Fantasy noticeably smaller then a pure cornutas because of the Cranwell?

[GrifTheGreat]

Thanks Grif. Was also curious, is the Fantasy noticeably smaller then a pure cornutas because of the Cranwell?

No. Their size varies just like the full bloods. Some Cranwellies can reach over 5.5".

[Maharg]

So it's pretty safe to say that if your buying a pacman for size (I'm in to big amphibians. It's just my thing) on average there won't be much difference between say a Fantasy and Ornata?

[GrifTheGreat]

So it's pretty safe to say that if your buying a pacman for size (I'm in to big amphibians. It's just my thing) on average there won't be much difference between say a Fantasy and Ornata?

On average no, but if you like large Amphibians a Giant African Bullfrog would be largest in the trade.

[Maharg]

Oh yea I already have one of those. And a rococo lol. Just looking to add a pacman.

[lorenjas]

Not sure how you feel about toads, but maybe consider adding a cane toad? They can reach 12 inches! Lol sounds kinda cool to me

Ive got a 9month old female oranate who just passed the 4in mark, Ive been feedin her primarily samurai Pacman food and it's really helped with fast growth. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she will be over 6in. (praying for 8! Lol)

[GrifTheGreat]

Not sure how you feel about toads, but maybe consider adding a cane toad? They can reach 12 inches! Lol sounds kinda cool to me

Ive got a 9month old female oranate who just passed the 4in mark, Ive been feedin her primarily samurai Pacman food and it's really helped with fast growth. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she will be over 6in. (praying for 8! Lol)

8" Is good if you aren't planning on breeding her Lol! She will eat the males.

[lorenjas]

Grif, you mean because she will likely be about double the size of the males she will eat them for sure? :/
I definitely agree it raises the risks, but I was hoping keeping her very well fed before breeding would mitigate that issue,
for example, feeding her a fuzzy or two so she was literally too full to even consider eating a male lol.

It would be a shame to have to stunt her growth for breeding.. But considering how she's almost a fully red samurai from Japan.. I may have to do that

[GrifTheGreat]

Grif, you mean because she will likely be about double the size of the males she will eat them for sure? :/
I definitely agree it raises the risks, but I was hoping keeping her very well fed before breeding would mitigate that issue,
for example, feeding her a fuzzy or two so she was literally too full to even consider eating a male lol.

It would be a shame to have to stunt her growth for breeding.. But considering how she's almost a fully red samurai from Japan.. I may have to do that

Large females are good for high egg counts, but if you don't have a large male he may become a meal for the frog no matter if you Fed her or not. Ornates especially are well known for their appetite and will continue to eat even when near full most of the time. I myself haven't begun to breed yet, but I'm speaking from others experiences and even a 6" female can and will eat smaller males.

This is best answered by Mike since he has bred Ornates in the last year and his experiences could be vital in helping you, but don't be disappointed in the answer isn't what you want to hear.

[lorenjas]

Haha eatin even when near full.. True enough this is a reason she's grown so big, I guess maybe I would have to babysit them while they breed? Hope someone watching doesn't give them performance anxiety lol (bad joke)
High egg counts seem like a definite plus. I guess my best bet would be to match her with a large male, or even possibly not let her reach 8in. Don't worry Grif, I can handle it if her being a tad smaller is what would ultimately be best. I can always raise one of her young purely for size and keep her and a couple other offspring for breeding
(note I don't mean interbreeding, just keeping for later breeding projects)

[Ra]

The largest Horned Frog species is C. Aurita seconded by C. Ornata. There are some female Auritas that were recorded at 10" SVL. C. Ornata can have females reaching 8" and C. Cornuta females reaching 6". To be exact each species would prey on one another. They are cannibalistic and will eat the same species and the other species if they're hungry and the opportunity were to arise.

It's considered that the 10" svl of an Aurita may have been a field observation that was exaggerated. C. Cornuta are typically somewhat smaller than a C.Cranwelli. Reports of one species preying on another come from areas where the frogs distribution overlaps. Obviously a frog that doesnt live in the same area as another species isn't going to eat it in the wild.

[Ra]

Thanks Grif. Was also curious, is the Fantasy noticeably smaller then a pure cornutas because of the Cranwell?

From what I understand a Cranwelli is somewhat larger than a Cornuta, which female Cornutas reaching up to 4.5 inches while female Cranwelli get about 5.5. Male Cornutas get typically about 3 inches, while male Cranwelli get about 4.25 inches. My male Fantasy Frog is just under three inches at four to five months age and growing, I doubt he will get much bigger than 3.5. Typically Fantasy frogs come out to be similar in size to a Cornuta.

[Ra]

On average no, but if you like large Amphibians a Giant African Bullfrog would be largest in the trade.

On average I would say yes. A female Fantasy Frog is going to be considerably smaller than a female Ornate, but a male Ornate may be similar in size to a female Fantasy when full grown.

[GrifTheGreat]

It's considered that the 10" svl of an Aurita may have been a field observation that was exaggerated. C. Cornuta are typically somewhat smaller than a C.Cranwelli. Reports of one species preying on another come from areas where the frogs distribution overlaps. Obviously a frog that doesnt live in the same area as another species isn't going to eat it in the wild.

I've always suspected this as well, but it could be that when it was first described in a particular region that they may have been that size and due to habitat lose and climate changes as well as change in diet could have prevented them from reaching this massive size.

I guess in truth we'll never know, but its my favorite of the Horned Frog Species.

[GrifTheGreat]

From what I understand a Cranwelli is somewhat larger than a Cornuta, which female Cornutas reaching up to 4.5 inches while female Cranwelli get about 5.5. Male Cornutas get typically about 3 inches, while male Cranwelli get about 4.25 inches. My male Fantasy Frog is just under three inches at four to five months age and growing, I doubt he will get much bigger than 3.5. Typically Fantasy frogs come out to be similar in size to a Cornuta.

I'm giving rare instances and average not exact. All individuals usually vary so its hard to place an exact SVL on each species.