Does this sound like Edema/Dropsy? Also a question on salts in dechlorinator.

[Focal]

Hello,

I hate having my first post to end up like this, but I am the new owner of an Albino and Apricot froglings (if that's a word). I've had them for about a week and have noticed a couple of awkward things.

The Albino seems a little stressed, probably from shipping, and often a little "limp" looking, but does move around occasionally. He just started eating and I have noticed his eyes closed sometimes. Turning off the light seems to help (26w CFL). He was the larger of the two when I first got them, last week.

The Apricot is definitely more active and has some personality, which makes the next part upsetting. She was the smaller of the two last thursday and has probably had one appropriately sized dubia every other day, but she has doubled in size in one week. She looked like she was obese and at first I mistook it for their well known piggishness. Just moments ago, I was thinking about how much she had grown in one day, reached down to get a dubia for the Albino, stood up and she was back to normal size, although with a deflated look. Within seconds she had released all the fluid she appeared to be retaining. Does this sound like dropsy? I have just learned of the term moments ago when googling the issue.

The Albino goes through more distilled water than the Apricot. They are on moistened EcoEarth with cork hides, 70-80% humidity, misted daily dechlorinated water (recently switched to distilled). Day temps are 80 on the cool spots and 88 at the very hottest. Night temps drop about two to three degrees.


I also had a question about Dechlorinator. I had read that salts could be harmful for frogs but I thought this stuff had salt in it (yes ionized salt is good for freshwater fish and promotes slime coat). I have since switched to distilled just to be safe, but it seems like everyone uses it. I was using the TetraAqua AquaSafe Water Conditioner (ingredients: Sodium Hydroxymethane Sulfinate, Chelating Compounds, Polyvinyl Pyrollidones, Seaweed Bipolymers, Organic Hydrocolloids). I'm not really sure about the first ingredient, but sodium leads me to think salt.

Thanks in advance.

Nick

[Focal]

Well, pics would help, huh?

Around the day the Apricot arrived:


Before deflation:


And here is the Albino:

[Ra]

The word is froglets.

compact flourescents may be too bright for your frogs eyes, which are positioned in a manner that causes them to look somewhat out and up. This is especially true for albinos, who should not be kept under compact flourescent lighting.

Doubling in size is a good sign. They also store water in their bodies, causing them to balloon, edema can be signified by swollen limbs, not just the body. If the frog has the ability to release the liquid, its not edema or "dropsy."

You shouldnt put distilled water in their water dish, as distilled water and r/o water lack minerals which the water may leach from the frog. Misting with distilled water is fine, and will keep the glass clear. Spring water or dechlorinated tap water should be used to soak the eco earth when preparing it and to put in the water dish.
Cork hides are great, the humidity is fine. The cool side can dip into the mid to high 70's, and the "hot spot" on the warmer side should not go above 85. Typically with froglets they should be kept no lower than 80 to 82, so thats fine for now, but get the hot spot under 85. The warmth will promote faster growth. A night drop down to 72 doesnt hurt.

Dechlorinators are fine for frogs, but distilled water can harm them over time (except for misting). Lots of chemicals come in a salt form, what you want to avoid is exposing them to sodium chloride, like table salt or marine water salt. If you are worried or unsure, switch to a reptile brand like Reptisafe.

As far as the frog who "seems limp" keep it well hydrated and consider slightly turning the heat down. If by limp you mean it has loose skin, thats normal. Usually it goes away with hydration and a good feeding. Also, they grow at different rates. Ive had froglets where one was bigger one day, smaller the next, and ended up growing larger in the end anyway!

Hope you house them seperately, froglets love to eat their siblings.

[Ra]

Those frogs both look great.

Try feeding them every day if they will take it, especially the smaller somewhat skinny one.

[Focal]

Awesome, thanks! That's really good stuff to know.

The temps I listed where extreme lows and extreme highs but I think I can fine tune that some more after I pull the CFL.

That's good news about the distilled and I'll be glad to pull that for other uses.

The limpness is hard to describe and appears to be stress. It's almost as if it doesn't have that "bulldog stance" but that could be him trying to stay out of the light.

And yup, they are separated from each other

Thanks again!

[Focal]

Update: The CFL was definitely a problem and have noticed the Albino appears much better. He's burrowing a little more and keeping his eyes wide open.

[GrifTheGreat]

Update: The CFL was definitely a problem and have noticed the Albino appears much better. He's burrowing a little more and keeping his eyes wide open.

Ra is definitely right about the florescent bulb. Never use CFLs or any kind of UVB lighting with these frogs. Albinos especially. Their eyes and skin are sensitive. More so than non-Albino frogs and can be burned or blinded by them. If light and supplemental heat is needed use a lamp for incandescent bulbs that has a dimmer switch so you can adjust the amount of light and heat produced by the bulb. For Albinos you'll need Infrared bulbs no higher than 50 watts. You can use the bulb 24/7 and it will not affect their day/night cycle.

I agree with Ra that your frogs look just fine. Maybe a little thin, but you can easily remedy that. The limp appearance could be a lack of calcium. Do you dust the frog's food with a multivitamin and calcium supplement? If not you should. Use a multivitamin like Herptivite once a week and a Calcium supplement that contains Vitamin D3 every other feeding or 3 times a week. Be sure not to dust with both at the same time or they will not absorb as well.

I don't agree with the low temp drop of 72° you should never go lower than 75° or you'll begin to see more stress issues. A good temp at night to hover around is 78°. Babies are especially susceptible to climate fluctuations that have temp and humidity levels plummet too far.

I hope we have provided you with useful information and relieved any worries you might have had

[Ra]

i didnt state that correctly. I had meant to say that adults can dip down into the low 70's, while babies should be maintained at warmer temperatures, such as what you described Grif. I realize I didnt make that very clear.

[GrifTheGreat]

i didnt state that correctly. I had meant to say that adults can dip down into the low 70's, while babies should be maintained at warmer temperatures, such as what you described Grif. I realize I didnt make that very clear.

All good Some adults dont like lower temps at night like that. Just depends on species. Like Cranwelli and Joazeirensis like it a bit warmer. Cornuta too. Ornata can handle slightly lower drops in temp with no ill affects. All around for adults youre right, but not always true with each individual since just like they have their burrowing preferences they also have slight climate preferences. At least mine do.