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Thread: Need some help with my pacmans.

  1. #1
    Necrosys
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    Default Need some help with my pacmans.

    Hi,

    About three months ago i discoverd this forum in search for a caresheet of pacmans, did my readings, prepared my terra's and on 03/06/12 my first ceratophrys ornata arrived from a german expo and 1 month later my cranwelli arrived.

    Everything went well untill 12/08 (i keep some feeding logs on my baby's) my ornata became less hungry at that moment and then stopt eating at all, his weight is about 30grams as we speak and about 5cm tall.

    So i did some tong feeding for the last 8 days, he dont go for his meal i have to put it in his mouth when he opens it, also no poop since 12/08.

    Already did a honey soak and a pedialyte soak, somebody that can help me? Or is going to the vet my best option?

    And only 2 days after 12/08 my cranwelli startted to eat less but he is bigger and i think he got impacted when he shed the firts time not 100% sure about it but i gave him some tepid water baths just in case.

    When he poops its not liquid poop or firm poop, i think he swallowd some paper (the storeowners keep them on moist paper in the store) so im waiting for a few days on him.

    I hope someone can help me with some advice or info.

    Grtz

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  3. #2
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosys View Post
    Hi,

    About three months ago i discoverd this forum in search for a caresheet of pacmans, did my readings, prepared my terra's and on 03/06/12 my first ceratophrys ornata arrived from a german expo and 1 month later my cranwelli arrived.

    Everything went well untill 12/08 (i keep some feeding logs on my baby's) my ornata became less hungry at that moment and then stopt eating at all, his weight is about 30grams as we speak and about 5cm tall.

    So i did some tong feeding for the last 8 days, he dont go for his meal i have to put it in his mouth when he opens it, also no poop since 12/08.

    Already did a honey soak and a pedialyte soak, somebody that can help me? Or is going to the vet my best option?

    And only 2 days after 12/08 my cranwelli startted to eat less but he is bigger and i think he got impacted when he shed the firts time not 100% sure about it but i gave him some tepid water baths just in case.

    When he poops its not liquid poop or firm poop, i think he swallowd some paper (the storeowners keep them on moist paper in the store) so im waiting for a few days on him.

    I hope someone can help me with some advice or info.

    Grtz
    Answer these questions for both frogs and repost the answes in your thread here.

    http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...enclosure.html


  4. #3
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Also if you're worried about impaction you should stop feeding them until it gets cleared up. If they are impacted feeding will just make the problem worse.

  5. #4
    Necrosys
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Info on the enclosures of both frogs:

    Ornata:

    1: 15l iris curver with black top and ventilad holes in it
    2: only him
    3: 84% always in the 80% range
    4: 25 to 27 roomtemp during the day, night temp is just below 25
    5: rainwater
    6: Eco earth just moist
    7: Fake plant (first cleaned with dettol, second bath in pure water), little soaking dish (he only used it 2 as i know of, cleaned like the plant), i still check the eco earth because i already found plastic in it and paper.
    8: Gutloaded crickets
    9: Vit + Cal every three feedings but not both on the same day
    10: Room light and incoming sunlight to the room or other terra light
    11: none at the moment but heat mat in the winter
    12: last meal he ate himself whas 12/08, i waited till the end off the month almost untill i feed him with a tong (teasing him untill he opens his mouth and i have to put the meal in it otherwise he wont grab it)
    13: no
    14: coming in the afternoon
    15: i got him on 03/06/12 at 2.5cm tall max
    16: almost 3 months now
    17: i think captive bred but not 100% sure about it.
    18: every day 3/4 crickets as main food/staple the first two months because i didnt want to stress him out too much when he arrived
    19: only on full viv cleaning, i think twice in 3 months
    20: low traffic area
    21: full cleaning every month and half, water changes everyday (max every 2 days)

    Cranwelli:

    1: 63l viv
    2: 1
    3: 86% (most of the time in the 80% range)
    4: 28/29
    5: rainwater
    6: Eco earth
    7: Left and Right are covered with a black wrap film, back side is a nature foto print, medium sized waterdish/ramp, fake plants on the left and right side of the viv. Everything get cleaned with dettol, after that second bath with pure water, a good layer of eco earth.
    8: Gutloaded crickets
    9: Vit + Cal every three feedings but not together
    10: 15watt tl light
    11: 15watt tl light (room temp is most of the time in the 26 range)
    12: 14/08
    13: no
    14: coming in the afternoon
    15: i have him since 03/07/12, but he is allreay about 9cm and its a male (nuptial pads)
    16: almost 2 months now
    17: they said captive bred but im not 100% sure of it
    18: Gutloaded crickets only
    19: only on viv cleaning every month
    20: low traffic area
    21: full clean every month, water change every day or max 2 days, also reinstall everything on the same place.

    Another question: if the frog is impacted, does it feel like a hard bump? Is it always 100% visibel?

    Grtz

  6. #5
    Necrosys
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Ornata setup:

    -
    -

    You can get a mini glimp of the ornata under the plant.

    Cranwelli setup:

    -
    -

    The cranwelli is hiding behind the plant on the left side.

    -

    Little snap shot during one of his soaks, as you can see he has a bump on the right side, when he tries to poop (thats what i think hes doing) it becomse bigger and gets like a 90degree corner, feels really hard also.

    Grtz

  7. #6
    Necrosys
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Just gave my cranwelli another soak and took a picture of what i mentiod before:

    -

    Can somebody tell me iff he is impacted or not?

    Grtz

  8. #7
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Feeling that 'corner' isn't abnormal. idk what you're using in the soaks, but for Trevor honey soaks have always worked better than pedialyte. Next time, fill the water up to right under his chin so that he has to use his front feet to push himself up out of the water just a little but not enough that he's having to swim. Then massage the lump very gently... I've had to do this for up to half an hour before to get results, but the patience usually pays off. You can also try gently massaging the vent area.

  9. #8
    100+ Post Member DVirginiana's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Couldn't see it in the first pic, but the second one showed up while I was typing that comment. THAT much of a corner isn't normal.

  10. #9
    Pluke
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Poor guy, I hope he pushes one out soon for ya. That's quite a bump he's got there. Good luck I'm sure he'll pull through just fine man, these guys will give you all the instruction you need to help him.

    Just recently there was a thread with a pacman that had a similar looking bump, everything came out OK for that pacman.

    Sidenote: Is it just me or does that substrate look a little dry?

  11. #10
    Necrosys
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    Quote Originally Posted by DVirginiana View Post
    Couldn't see it in the first pic, but the second one showed up while I was typing that comment. THAT much of a corner isn't normal.
    So i can be sure he is impacted? How long can they last without any real food? His weight at the moment is 111grams.

    And yes the eco earth whas to dry, i made it à little wetter before i put krueger back in his viv.

  12. #11
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Don't use Rain water. Use De-chlorinated tap water or natural Spring water. Rain water is the same as distilled or R/O water except it may contain pollutants from the atmosphere. That is definitely an impaction. They can go long periods as adults, but juveniles need to be fed every other day. With an impaction you don't want to try and feed the frog until it passes the blockage.

    Prepare a bath of luke warm(tepid) water with 4 drops of honey dissolved in the bath. As Devaginiana has states above it should be no deeper than up to the frog's chin. Massage the right side very gently in little circles towards the Cloaca(vent). Soak the frog for 15 to 20 minutes. Have a second bath prepared of just Luke warm de-chlorinated water of the same depth. As the honey bath cools transfer him into the new bath which will be warm. Repeat the gentle massaging. Soak for another 15 minutes.

    The frog may not go this time, but keep performing the baths and gentle massaging daily until the frog poops.

    That is probably why the Cranwelli isn't eating, but I'm not certain about the Ornata. Could have something to do with you using rain water. I would go ahead and give the Ornata the same treatment as the Cranwelli and see if their are any changes.

    Try and find some Fluker's Repta-Aid(Repta-Boost). You may need it.


  13. #12
    Necrosys
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Thx for the info/advice ppl, swith from rain water to De-Chl tap water past night.

    Ill start giving the cranwelli a gentle massage this afternoon and i hope my ornata will resume eating on his own very soon.

    Last night when i teased him with the tong he even did his little come to me dance but no attack on the earthworm.

    Grtz

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    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosys View Post
    Thx for the info/advice ppl, swith from rain water to De-Chl tap water past night.

    Ill start giving the cranwelli a gentle massage this afternoon and i hope my ornata will resume eating on his own very soon.

    Last night when i teased him with the tong he even did his little come to me dance but no attack on the earthworm.

    Grtz
    Watch this video and try this method of tong feeding. Not the way the adult is being fed, but the babies. Rub the food on the frogs face like in the video; http://www.frogforum.net/pacman-frog...t=tong+feeding


  15. #14
    Necrosys
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    Update: i found a very little piece of poop in the viv of my cranwelli but the bump on his right side is still there.

    My ornata is still not eating on his own but yesterday he pooped again while i was feeding him and he is more active.

    For the moment they both get à honeybad on daily basis.

    Grtz

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    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosys View Post
    Update: i found a very little piece of poop in the viv of my cranwelli but the bump on his right side is still there.

    My ornata is still not eating on his own but yesterday he pooped again while i was feeding him and he is more active.

    For the moment they both get à honeybad on daily basis.

    Grtz
    Only do the baths until the blockages are gone.


  17. #16
    Necrosys
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Update:

    Ornata: no progress,dont want to eat on his own! I always need to tong feed him, after some teasing he open his mouth and i have to put the earthworm or cricket in it and then he will eat it.

    Cranwelli: looks like the bump is even bigger then before.

    Grtz

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    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosys View Post
    Update:

    Ornata: no progress,dont want to eat on his own! I always need to tong feed him, after some teasing he open his mouth and i have to put the earthworm or cricket in it and then he will eat it.

    Cranwelli: looks like the bump is even bigger then before.

    Grtz

    You may have to force feed the Ornate because it may be weak from not eating. It is fine for you to place the food in its mouth feed it.

    Since the Cranwelli appears worse you may need to find a Hero Vet and have the frog seen. If it is something that cannot be passed by home treatments then a Vet trip is necessary.

    Keep us posted and good luck.


  19. #18
    Necrosys
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    Update:

    Cranwelli: i think we are making some progress with him, ill post à photo later on.

    Ornata: im force feeding this one for quite à time now but he still not eat on his own! I hope hè poops again tonight so i can bring it to the vet.

    Grtz

  20. #19
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necrosys View Post
    Update:

    Cranwelli: i think we are making some progress with him, ill post à photo later on.

    Ornata: im force feeding this one for quite à time now but he still not eat on his own! I hope hè poops again tonight so i can bring it to the vet.

    Grtz
    Keep us posted.


  21. #20
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    Default Re: Need some help with my pacmans.

    Once they reach about 2 inches, you dont need to feed them as frequently. Three days a week should do. How often are you feeding them? After the first month, once they reach about two inches, their growth rate slows down dramatically, and so does their metabolism. You may be feeding them more than they are capable of digesting, which will cause problems.

    I keep my frogs on foam pads, if I notice they havent pooped in a while I remove the foam pads so that they are in only shallow water. Being in the water all the time seems to help them drop a deuce much easier.

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