Alright, so when I first bought my pacmans back in July I bought 33 small Hornworms to feed them. I knew my frogs wouldn't be able to eat all of them before they grew and that I would attempt to breed the ones who weren't eaten. Now, a little less than two months later I'm collecting eggs. Tons of them. In the last three days I've collected about 700 eggs and I know I've got at least 2 more females that will be laying soon. Going in to this I knew that when they lay their eggs they would place them randomly throughout their enclosure.. but my god, are these things annoying to collect. lol.. I've got 6 frogs and I'm going to have probably a 1000+ Hornworms by the time they are done laying and hatching.
If you guys have got any questions about how I raised them or anything feel free to ask. I'm sure once they've hatched I will try and sell some since that was the original plan, but I have a feeling they'll be hard to get rid of. I'll Probably just sell locally, but who knows. That might change, depending on how much of a hassle shipping is.
I'd very much like to hear about their care & how you go about breeding them. Sounds like fun :P
Alright.. so I orignally had about 33 worms. About 20 of them were ready to turn into Cacoons. I tried two methods of getting them to pupate. The first I read about on a manduca sexta hornworm raising information page. It said to put the worms in a container with balled up newspaper and toilet paper rolls. HUGE MISTAKE! DO NOT do this. All of the worms dried up and died even with regular misting and keeping it moist. Terrible. I was pretty upset with this.
The method that worked. I took a sterlite tube, shoebox sized, and drilled a bunch of little holes in the top for ventilation. I filled it with a bunch of spagnum moss and a couple toilet paper rolls. This worked great, within a week of wandering, they all pupated. I also had some in a folgers coffee can with spagnum moss and some toilet paper/cardboard and this worked just as good, keep in mind that I misted both of these enclosures pretty decently every day or every other day, depending on how warm it was. If they needed moisture, I sprayed. You just don't want it to be too dry. With this method, none of my pupa died. Which I hear is pretty common, so this method works great. All 12 of the pupa I had have all hatched so far, I have one left and I'm willing to guess it'll hatch tonight.
After they were done pupating I had about 12 pupa. I took the 12 of them in buried them in about an inch of eco earth in a sterlite container, I left the heads sticking out but I don't think it matter. As you'll be removing them from the dirt before they pop. They sat in the dirt for about a month, maybe less, and they start turning a dark brown. When this happened, I put them on the surface of the dirt and opened the sterlite container and put it in the cage I had them in. The cage I used is just a animal cage like a rabbit cage or something I had in my barn, I took that and bought some screen stuff at Lowes and just coated the cage with that. The cage is probably 30"18"30. I had a humming bird feeder with Lemon-Lime Gatorade in it with a little sugar added. I don't even know if that was necessary, they drink it and they are all still alive. When you place the container with the pupa in the cage make sure they have a way to climb out of it. I made the mistake of having one hatch with the lid still on the container and it ruined it's wings, I felt terrible as it couldn't fly. When they climb out of the box they'll climb up the screen and hang upside down, after of course crapping all over the place. Make sure you have a few layers of newspaper on the bottom of your cage. These moths need "moonlight" in order for them to breed I guess, so I placed them next to the window in my room where you can see the moon every night. I had a full moon these last couple of days so they were going crazy, that probably helped a lot. I hear you can just paint a nightlight bulb with black enamel paint and that works.. I'd be willing to bet a night heat light would work, too.
After about 3 days of having the moths I had a problem.. I COULDN'T FIND ANY TOMATO PLANTS!! I did some research and heard they liked grapevine leafs, which I have a ton of in my yard.. and alas, it worked great. They started laying the night I placed the vine into the cage. They laid eggs all over the place, on the humming bird feeder, the leaves, and the screen.. even in the eco earth I had in there, which is pretty annoying. They literally lay them in the most annoying places they can. Make it fun for you to collect. -_-
Anyways.. yah, that's about it. If I missed something I'll fix it, but you can get the gist of it from what I have hear. I'm sure in winter or cold conditions it would be harder, but I had summer on my side. I didn't have to use heat lamps or anything, I just kept the pupas on my indoor porch so they get plenty of daylight and outside temperatures. Enjoy, any questions, as I said before, feel free to ask.
I failed with this the first time around... and those that were left got swept away in a storm when the wind took their repatrium across the property, lol.
Nice write-up Pluke! I'm intrigued by the grapevine leaves, will definitely have to try those sometime. I've always only used young tomato or bell pepper plants which was painful during egg removal due to the small and delicate size of the leaves and plant.
Good luck with the breeding project! Hope you have a ton of chow at the ready for when those eggs hatch! A single clutch of those larvae eat an absurd amount of food O.o
-Jeff Howell
ReptileBoards ( Branched from The Reptile Rooms )
"If you give, you begin to live." -DMB
Well, I just had about 100 or so eggs hatch today. I have about a pound or so of food in the fridge and I'm going to order some today, hopefully it will get here pretty fast. These eggs hatch really fast, it's a shame you can't slow them and store them so you can hatch and raise them as needed. Instead I have to hatch all 1000 eggs and have them all at once.. lol. I need to go clean out my moth cage again as the last two nights I've had a ton more eggs laid. >_>
Even though the grape vine leaves are pretty big, they didn't lay much eggs on them at all. Instead they decided to cover the bottom of my hummingbird feeder and every little crack they can find on it.. this is annoying because I have to take the feeder out and risk spilling the juice all over the place while trying to pick off eggs! So I figured if they're gonna do this I'll just set the vine/leaves on the outside of the cage.. that way it's one less thing for them to lay on and they just stick to the feeder or the screen.
I read that tomato leaves make the hornworms poisonous. Is that not true?
It's true. That's why you don't feed the ones you find in the wild to your pets. Same goes for pretty much any other wild insect/rodent you'd find. I use a hornworm chow made by Great lakes hornworms.
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but just to elaborate on what Pluke said: Manduca sexta will feed on a variety of plants in the Solanaceae family... Tomato, Pepper, and Tobacco are the most common host plant crops. ALL of these plants contain secondary metabolites and alkaloids that are fairly toxic to a wide variety of animals. So even if you see a hornworm (or any larvae for that matter) feeding on something other than tomato, it is still likely toxic.
Just wanted to stress what Pluke has covered about feeding wild-caught butterfly and moth larvae - there are varieties of species that utilize their host plant compounds as a defense against predation. So be sure to go with the safe lab chow ; ) I know mulberryfarms.com also sells hornworm chow in addition to Great Lakes.
-Jeff Howell
ReptileBoards ( Branched from The Reptile Rooms )
"If you give, you begin to live." -DMB
I feed romaine lettuce to hornworm, does that make them poisonous?
No - it's the secondary metabolites in their host plant family Solanacea that make them toxic, such as tomato, pepper, and tobacco.
Romaine is safe. But they will not likely thrive on it for a long time and they probably wouldn't be able to reach adulthood and breed unless fed the toxic species from their host plant species. As long as they are cultured in captivity they are okay but if the hornworm has ever been outside to have fed on a toxic plant they too will be toxic.
-Jeff Howell
ReptileBoards ( Branched from The Reptile Rooms )
"If you give, you begin to live." -DMB
I know this thread is old but if anyone sees this I was wondering what you do with the eggs once you harvest them I just want to know what the steps between harvesting them and them hatching are if possible
Haven't been on this site in a long time, but I got the email alert. I haven't raised Hornworms since this occurrence, but if I remember correctly I just put them in a container with some food. That is it. I believe the container I used had an air vent that was too big and I remember having tiny hornworms all over the container. They are hearty little guys, but hard to round up the escapees without injury them because they are so tiny. I don't think they really need that much air so a couple air holes should suffice. Just put them in a tupperware shoebox with some food and they should find their way to it when they hatch.
Awesome thank you so much I really appreciate your quick reply!
Mom to these fine frogs!
4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert
I have gotten really nice hornworms from Great Lakes Hornworms in the past.
https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203589094112277&id=1363241107&set =a.1434844115446.2055312.1363241107&source=11&ref= bookmark
I picked some up at a local expo and fed off all the tiny ones, but now the rest have gotten too big to feed to everyone except Martha, who won't eat them-- grr! They are almost out of food, is there a natural non-toxic food I could find locally, like grape leaves, that will keep them going until they can pupate? How long can these guys live without food? I'm not buying hornworms again until I have a wine cooler to keep them in, they just grow too darn fast! :P
Mom to these fine frogs!
4.4.0 White's tree frogs (Litoria caerulea): Sir Honey Lime, Bok & Choi, Martha, Shirley, Leapin' Loo and Ping & Pong; 0.2.1 Amazon Milk Frogs (Trachycephalus resinifictrix): Otto & Echo and Pip-Squeak aka Tiny
2.0.0 South American Bird Poo Frogs (Hyla marmorata): Ribbit & Rupert
You can throw in some apple chunks and carrots they eat them like crazy just make sure you clean the poop out daily or they will eat it and die or start eating each other because of no food. That's what happened to mine after a while at least
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