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Thread: Poo Questions?

  1. #1
    TeeRiddle
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    Default Poo Questions?

    Hi all,

    I feed my pac night crawlers and crickets, with the occasional hornworm or waxworm. I would say his diet consists of 85% night crawlers, 10% crickets, and 5% hornworms and waxworms.

    With these percentages and the fact that night crawlers can act as a laxative, his last three or four poos have been very runny.

    Is this ok?

    Shouldn't he have more of a solid stool? I can see having the squirts every now and then, but is it good to have runny stools all the time? If I continue this diet pattern of mostly night crawlers then I can assume his stool will always be this way, right?

    Also, he's pooing about once a week. The last time he went was after I set him in his water bowl and phew! was it a mess! I have started taking him out and soaking him in lukewarm water once a week. Should I increase the number of times I soak per week? I don't want to stress him out. I'm not sure of his age, but he's about 3" SVL.

    Ultimately, my question is - is this OK or should I add more crickets into his diet to "stabilize" (for lack of a better word) his stool? I've considered offering him a very small pinkie mouse to see how he does with it.

    Other than that everything is great with him. He eats good, croaks at night three or four times a week, and seems overall in good health.

    Thanks!

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  3. #2
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poo Questions?

    Runny stool is often a sign of parasites. They can get parasites from crickets. Not changing the water frequently can cause it too. Stress can also cause runny stool, but having runny bowel movements several times in a row is more likely parasites. You should have a fecal sample tested to be sure. Some vets will let you drop off a sample to be tested without bringing the frog in (less stress for the frog). Hope you your little guy feels better soon!


  4. #3
    Evolution
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    Default Re: Poo Questions?

    Frog Forum - How to do Fecal Exams Shows you how to do your own fecal exams. Its not that difficult if you have the equipment.

  5. #4
    TeeRiddle
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    Default Re: Poo Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    Runny stool is often a sign of parasites. They can get parasites from crickets. Not changing the water frequently can cause it too. Stress can also cause runny stool, but having runny bowel movements several times in a row is more likely parasites. You should have a fecal sample tested to be sure. Some vets will let you drop off a sample to be tested without bringing the frog in (less stress for the frog). Hope you your little guy feels better soon!
    Oh boy! I was hoping it wasn't something like that, and was just the diet of night crawlers.

    I'm going to call my vet in the morning and make sure they can perform fecal exams. I'm sure they can, but never hurts to ask first. As soon as I get a "specimen" from him again I'll have it checked out.

    Hopefully, parasites aren't the case, but if it is I want to have it treated ASAP.

    Anything I can do in the mean time? Like I said, he's pretty healthy otherwise (good appetite, active, clear, responsive eyes, etc)?

    Thanks Grif.

  6. #5
    TeeRiddle
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    Default Re: Poo Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evolution View Post
    Frog Forum - How to do Fecal Exams Shows you how to do your own fecal exams. Its not that difficult if you have the equipment.
    Thanks for the link, Evolution! While that is a very interesting read I think I'll leave it to the experts

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    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeRiddle View Post
    Oh boy! I was hoping it wasn't something like that, and was just the diet of night crawlers.

    I'm going to call my vet in the morning and make sure they can perform fecal exams. I'm sure they can, but never hurts to ask first. As soon as I get a "specimen" from him again I'll have it checked out.

    Hopefully, parasites aren't the case, but if it is I want to have it treated ASAP.

    Anything I can do in the mean time? Like I said, he's pretty healthy otherwise (good appetite, active, clear, responsive eyes, etc)?

    Thanks Grif.
    As long as there wasn't any blood in his stool and he is active and acting normally he will be fine until you get a fecal exam done. There is a possibility that he just has a sensitive stomach. One of my males Loki gets runny stool anytime I give time something new. First Dubia he ate gave him runny stool. Lol! Must have been spicy.


  8. #7
    TeeRiddle
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    As long as there wasn't any blood in his stool and he is active and acting normally he will be fine until you get a fecal exam done. There is a possibility that he just has a sensitive stomach. One of my males Loki gets runny stool anytime I give time something new. First Dubia he ate gave him runny stool. Lol! Must have been spicy.
    I'm hoping that's what's going on with Orion. He was fed nothing but crickets at the pet store I bought him from and the first two weeks I had him.

    Then I started feeding him mainly nightcrawlers with a couple crickets.

    His first two poops were solid while his last two (after starting to feed nightcrawlers) were runny.

    Hopefully it is the change but I'm still going to have a fecal exam performed once I get a stool sample.

    Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

  9. #8
    TeeRiddle
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    I finally got a (very large) stool from Orion this morning. It was soft, but not as runny as before. I called the vet as soon as they opened and took the stool in for an exam. I should found out the results Tuesday.

    Fingers crossed that everything comes back normal!

  10. #9
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poo Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeRiddle View Post
    I finally got a (very large) stool from Orion this morning. It was soft, but not as runny as before. I called the vet as soon as they opened and took the stool in for an exam. I should found out the results Tuesday.

    Fingers crossed that everything comes back normal!
    Be sure and let us know.


  11. #10
    TeeRiddle
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    Be sure and let us know.
    Thanks Grif. I'll update as soon as I get the results.

    On a side note - Orion's colors are much more vibrant after the big poo. He was very dark in color the past couple days. Could this be a sign that he was backed up or just a coincidence?

  12. #11
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeRiddle View Post
    Thanks Grif. I'll update as soon as I get the results.

    On a side note - Orion's colors are much more vibrant after the big poo. He was very dark in color the past couple days. Could this be a sign that he was backed up or just a coincidence?
    Probably stress from being constipated and uncomfortable. Their colors can be used to determine stress levels and mood. Even illness.


  13. #12
    TeeRiddle
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    I got the results back from the fecal exam this past Tuesday (8/28) and it wasn't good news.

    Unfortunately Grif, you were spot on - Orion has parasites.

    I haven't had the chance to speak to the vet directly as we have been playing phone tag the entire week, but he left me a voice mail saying they found two different types of intestinal parasites.

    I'm calling his office first thing in the morning to set up an appointment. It figures since this has been found my work kicked into major overtime so finding the time to take him in will be a challenge. I'm sure I'll catch (you know what) for taking off early to take a frog to the doc lol.

    I have a ton of questions for the vet, but I would like to also express some of those questions here, if that's ok.

    First, I'm almost pretty sure that he probably contracted the parasites after I brought him home. I say that because his first two stools were solid (the first two weeks I had him), while all the ones after that have been much softer.

    I'm assuming he contracted the parasites via food, so something I've fed him must have been contaminated. The problem is I don't know the source as I've purchased feeders (crickets, night crawlers, and occasional hornworms) from various pet stores in my area. Because of this I can't really pinpoint where the "bad" feeders came from.

    So, once he's treated and hopefully parasite-free, how do I prevent this from happening again? I could get him all well just for him to get parasites again from contaminated feeders. I would not want to continually need to keep putting him through a treatment process every 3 - 6 months because he continually becomes infected, ya know?

    He's still acting normally - appetite is good, activity is good, and no signs of any sickness. I have been watching his weight closely and it seems fine. Hopefully he will be okay for a couple more days until I can get him in to the vet.

    Grif, I really appreciate the heads up on the possibility of parasites, which lead me to have the fecal exam performed. Without your advice I would have never thought of parasites as the problem.

  14. #13
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Poo Questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by TeeRiddle View Post
    I got the results back from the fecal exam this past Tuesday (8/28) and it wasn't good news.

    Unfortunately Grif, you were spot on - Orion has parasites.

    I haven't had the chance to speak to the vet directly as we have been playing phone tag the entire week, but he left me a voice mail saying they found two different types of intestinal parasites.

    I'm calling his office first thing in the morning to set up an appointment. It figures since this has been found my work kicked into major overtime so finding the time to take him in will be a challenge. I'm sure I'll catch (you know what) for taking off early to take a frog to the doc lol.

    I have a ton of questions for the vet, but I would like to also express some of those questions here, if that's ok.

    First, I'm almost pretty sure that he probably contracted the parasites after I brought him home. I say that because his first two stools were solid (the first two weeks I had him), while all the ones after that have been much softer.

    I'm assuming he contracted the parasites via food, so something I've fed him must have been contaminated. The problem is I don't know the source as I've purchased feeders (crickets, night crawlers, and occasional hornworms) from various pet stores in my area. Because of this I can't really pinpoint where the "bad" feeders came from.

    So, once he's treated and hopefully parasite-free, how do I prevent this from happening again? I could get him all well just for him to get parasites again from contaminated feeders. I would not want to continually need to keep putting him through a treatment process every 3 - 6 months because he continually becomes infected, ya know?

    He's still acting normally - appetite is good, activity is good, and no signs of any sickness. I have been watching his weight closely and it seems fine. Hopefully he will be okay for a couple more days until I can get him in to the vet.

    Grif, I really appreciate the heads up on the possibility of parasites, which lead me to have the fecal exam performed. Without your advice I would have never thought of parasites as the problem.
    You're very welcome and knowing these symptoms will help catch any future infections if they occur.

    More than likely he contracted the Parasites from the crickets, but he may have had them all along and just now has begun to show the symptoms as the infection grows. Crickets are dirty feeders no matter how clean their culture is kept. about 1 out of 10 will contain some sort of parasite, but perhaps fewer. Pinworms being one of the most common they carry.

    If he has protozoa than that came from dirty water. Water should be changed no less that every 2 days whether the frog uses it or not. Stagnant water breeds bacteria and protozoa as well as Amoeba.

    Hopefully you'll get it cleared up quickly.


  15. #14
    TeeRiddle
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    You're very welcome and knowing these symptoms will help catch any future infections if they occur.

    More than likely he contracted the Parasites from the crickets, but he may have had them all along and just now has begun to show the symptoms as the infection grows. Crickets are dirty feeders no matter how clean their culture is kept. about 1 out of 10 will contain some sort of parasite, but perhaps fewer. Pinworms being one of the most common they carry.

    If he has protozoa than that came from dirty water. Water should be changed no less that every 2 days whether the frog uses it or not. Stagnant water breeds bacteria and protozoa as well as Amoeba.

    Hopefully you'll get it cleared up quickly.
    Thanks, Grif. I hope to get it cleared up quickly, too.

    I don't know yet what parasites Orion has. The vet just said two different kinds of intestinal parasites and that he would email me the results. I never received them and called to verify they have the correct email address, but still haven't received it.

    He doesn't eat crickets any more because since getting a taste for night crawlers and hornworms he really doesn't care much for them. I did feed him crickets at first because that's what the pet store fed him, so I continued the practice the first couple weeks I had him.

    I change his water about three times a week if he doesn't soil it. If he does soil the water I change it as soon as I find it. I think I'll start changing the water every day from here on out whether it needs it or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TeeRiddle View Post
    Thanks, Grif. I hope to get it cleared up quickly, too.

    I don't know yet what parasites Orion has. The vet just said two different kinds of intestinal parasites and that he would email me the results. I never received them and called to verify they have the correct email address, but still haven't received it.

    He doesn't eat crickets any more because since getting a taste for night crawlers and hornworms he really doesn't care much for them. I did feed him crickets at first because that's what the pet store fed him, so I continued the practice the first couple weeks I had him.

    I change his water about three times a week if he doesn't soil it. If he does soil the water I change it as soon as I find it. I think I'll start changing the water every day from here on out whether it needs it or not.
    That's a good idea.


  17. #16
    TeeRiddle
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    Default Re: Poo Questions?

    OK, finally received the fecal exam results via email today. Here's what it read:


    STRONGYLOIDES LARVAE PRESENT MODERATE (11-30)
    HOOKWORM OVA PRESENT MODERATE (11-30)
    MITE EGGS PRESENT FEW (3-10): UNABLE TO DETERMINE SPECIES DUE TO DEGENERATION.

    VERIFIED BY SECOND TECH.Semi-quantitative results are reported to estimate the number ofparasites seen during this exam. They do not reflect a quantitativeparasite count.

    In cases of acute or chronic diarrhea in addition to a fecalfloatation for ova and parasites consider testing for viral, bacterialand protozoal infectious agents using RealPCR (canine diarrhea panel:test code 2625; feline diarrhea panel: test code 2627).


    Sorry it's so big. That's how it pasted in.

    Set up an appointment for Friday. Hope the vet is able to take care of this!

  18. #17
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Hook worms are very bad and you'll have to get rid of everything and set up a hospital setup. Contact MrZoggs on here. He is treating frogs for hookworms and can tell you exactly what you'll need to do tank wise. I've never dealt with them, but they're a nasty parasite and hard to get rid of.

    You'll have to disinfect the enclosure daily with a 10% bleach solution.

    The Vet should be able to tell you eat to do though.


  19. #18
    TeeRiddle
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    Well, just got back from the vet visit with Orion. The doc didn't seem too worried about the hookworms and treated him with 10 mg of Panacur with a re-treatment in 2 weeks. He said this should take care of both the hookworms and the strongyloides, but if it isn't enough to eradicate then Ivermactin may be needed.

    He suggested I use reptile food from Mazuri instead of night crawlers and crickets. I guess it's something like pacman food from Samurai? I don't know. He also suggested to stop feeding him night crawlers from a bait place (I buy nightcrawlers from either Wal-Mart or Petco, but they are both from a bait supply place). He said bait suppliers can be high in parasitic feeders. Eliminating bait will be a huge challenge since just about any nightcrawler you find for sale will be for bait.

    Otherwise Orion is in great shape. He even weighed an even 100 grams.

    Hopefully the Panacur will do the trick!
    Last edited by TeeRiddle; September 7th, 2012 at 06:52 PM.

  20. #19
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    Sounds good, but I don't think the parasites came from the night crawlers. Crickets yes, but not so much the night crawlers. They can carry parasites like any other living creature, but you usually don't infect your frog by feeding them chemical and dye free worms. Anything is possible.


  21. #20
    TeeRiddle
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    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    Sounds good, but I don't think the parasites came from the night crawlers. Crickets yes, but not so much the night crawlers. They can carry parasites like any other living creature, but you usually don't infect your frog by feeding them chemical and dye free worms. Anything is possible.
    I asked him that, Grif. He said any living thing can harbor parasites. I guess that's true, but I think the chances of a nightcrawler having them is pretty low. I'm going to continue with nightcrawlers only and see what happens. Orion goes for another treatment in two weeks then another fecal exam to see if anythings left.

    If he comes up positive again then I'll switch to a different brand of nightcrawlers and see what happens. Hopefully these parasites are not hindering him too badly!

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