Please Help! Really Concerned!

[arielgasca420]

And why do you think no one is agreeing with your argument? You admitted yourself that the water in your city uses water with low levels of chlorine. And so, you know chlorine is present in the water, and yet you're not doing anything about it.

You might be right that the water is NOT the cause of the problem. But have you thought about the case if you are wrong? Why take the risk? A water conditioner is cheap and readily available. It will not harm your frog, and even if it doesn't solve the problem, you're playing it safe.

This whole argument is not about YOU. It's about the well-being of your frog. And if you, as the owner, are not going to do the best to provide for your frog, then there really isn't an argument is there? The life of your frog lies in your hand. All the members here can do is advise you on the care. Ultimately, you make the choices.

I laugh every time I see your avatar picture. I cant get over it!

[arielgasca420]

Unsubscribed thanks to self righteous *******s who think they know everything and wont stop harassing me.

sweet! now that she/he is gone I can ask a question about water. is rain water safe? I was always a skeptic of acid rain because I live in a city with a lot of pollution. also, My boss gives me this water that is filtered entirely and only leaves in natural minerals. its a $4,000 machine he got from japan and it makes the water with a pH of 9. is alkaline water bad for frogs?

[GrifTheGreat]

sweet! now that she/he is gone I can ask a question about water. is rain water safe? I was always a skeptic of acid rain because I live in a city with a lot of pollution. also, My boss gives me this water that is filtered entirely and only leaves in natural minerals. its a $4,000 machine he got from japan and it makes the water with a pH of 9. is alkaline water bad for frogs?

Rain water can be depending on where you live and of course it does pick up solution as it falls back to earth. Acid rain is definitely bad. Any puddle may contain chemical, parasites, and many other microbes that could harm your frog. Distilled water is basically condensation, but lacks minerals so is not a good choice for soaking and or expanding their substrate because it steals minerals and salts from the frogs if they bath in it. Rain may contain some mineral content, but barely and it relatively unsafe to use for your Captives.

I'm not sure about what comes out of the machine.

[arielgasca420]

thanks Grif
ok I will attempt to go into the science of this machine. It ionizes the water with platinum plates. they call it electrodialysis. it separates neutral water into acid and alkaline. the alkaline water has calcium, magnesium, and potassium left over. the acid water has chlorine, flouride, nitrates, and sulfides. they also say the way this water works with humans allows their body to absorb water in their tissues at a faster rate with more hydration. I made the mistake of drinking a lot of this water the first week and had to make a lot of bathroom trips. this water is awesome because instead of neutral water separating from oil, the alkaline water actually mixes with oil

[arielgasca420]

Hey grif, my frog forum crashed on me so im sending this from my phone. Ill get back to you tomorrow when i have better internet connection. Ill start a new thread about this topic

[Ra]

I would just treat any tap water with a dechlorinator. Amphibians are't "reptiles" and while a reptile may be able to handle low levels of chlorine just fine an amphibian will slowly get sick from it. I dont see why you wouldnt ere on the side of caution and AT LEAST just let the water sit out for 24 hours before using it.
There is a difference between reptiles and amphibians....

The whole issue about the sphagnum moss irritates me though. Alot of keepers have been using moss with amphibians and Pacman frogs for years. Alot of them. On the other hand I have never really heard of any cases of an animal being impacted. Any subtrate can cause impaction if ingested, but some are safer. If you allow your frogs to "hunt" free roaming prey, then coco fiber is the best choice. I tong feed and I use a dye/chemical free sphagnum moss substrate with zero problems.

Feeding your animal one kind of insect is probably unhealthy. Butterworms are probably the most unnatural diet for a Pacman frog I have ever heard of next to mealworms. Pacman frogs should be fed as varied a diet as possible, you should at least switch things up every once in a while.

I just dont understand how some people can be so dense.

[GrifTheGreat]

thanks Grif
ok I will attempt to go into the science of this machine. It ionizes the water with platinum plates. they call it electrodialysis. it separates neutral water into acid and alkaline. the alkaline water has calcium, magnesium, and potassium left over. the acid water has chlorine, flouride, nitrates, and sulfides. they also say the way this water works with humans allows their body to absorb water in their tissues at a faster rate with more hydration. I made the mistake of drinking a lot of this water the first week and had to make a lot of bathroom trips. this water is awesome because instead of neutral water separating from oil, the alkaline water actually mixes with oil

Basically the machine makes a electrolyte solution rather than just purified water. Since frogs absorb water into their tissues through their skin. and I have a feeling that if used too often they would absorb too much and become bloated from retaining to much fluid. I can say that using this water with a small amount of Pedialyte for a medicated soak would probably be beneficial because, but you must be careful. I wouldn't use the water as their main source or to saturate their substrate.

If it contains heavy metals after the purification process you would still have to treat it and you don't want the frog to have too much exposure to certain elements because like vitamins they can be overloaded. Sou ra like a very interesting machine though.

[arielgasca420]

I was planning to still use the repti safe in the machines water just as an extra precaution. I think I will just skip it and have this awesome water all to myself. only curious. thanks for the input Grif

[GrifTheGreat]

I was planning to still use the repti safe in the machines water just as an extra precaution. I think I will just skip it and have this awesome water all to myself. only curious. thanks for the input Grif

You're welcome.

[DVirginiana]

The whole issue about the sphagnum moss irritates me though. Alot of keepers have been using moss with amphibians and Pacman frogs for years. Alot of them. On the other hand I have never really heard of any cases of an animal being impacted. Any subtrate can cause impaction if ingested, but some are safer. If you allow your frogs to "hunt" free roaming prey, then coco fiber is the best choice. I tong feed and I use a dye/chemical free sphagnum moss substrate with zero problems.

I always thought the moss thing was more of a 'if you have to ask you probably shouldn't be using it' sort of issue. It can definitely be used safely, and even has some benefits if it is, but if someone has to ask whether or not it is safe, it is unlikely that they are experienced enough to avoid all the issues that the moss could cause. Seems like mostly a cautionary thing.
I have a snake that, due to me being uninformed, was kept on cob bedding for over ten years (longer than the average lifespan of a garter) and only recently got switched to a safer setup. Even though he never had any issues, I know people that have had babies die of impaction after one feeding on cob. Reminds me of the moss... Like, it's entirely possible to never have issues with it, but why risk it? (I know there's not really a risk if done properly, I'm talking about people who aren't taking all the right precautions)

[IvoryReptiles]

Ya know......the cliche of "One out of ten doctors recommend..." could fit here. If the majority of experienced breeders/keepers are giving you the SAME advice, common sense should dictate it is a good idea.
She could have ended all of this with a simple "Okay, thanks for the advice." and none of us would have been the wiser to her continuing her irresponsible husbandry. It has nothing to do with her age, it is all about being a stuborn individual. When we have an issue with a pet and ask advice from those who have more experience, we do everything we can to correct the situation.....we are grateful for the advice and say so. I guess some folks just don't care about the animals as much as they do about their ego.

[Heatheranne]

Jessica is right. When asking for advice from knowledgable frog owners and breeders at least truly take it into consideration. It is wise advice. With perhaps just a simple thank you.


City water is treated with chlorine. Over time the levels absorbed by frogs will build up and lead to toxic levels within them and their body systems will begin to shut down and/or they will become sick. It is dependent on the amount circulating in your water as to how long that may take to occur. Think of your frogs as little sponges. They will absorb whatever can pass through their permeable membranes/skin, whether good or bad. The only way to know what is in your water is to have it tested, as Amanda said. All fish and amphibians should have dechlorinated water. Simply put. Those who believe otherwise are wrong. Not by my opinion. Scroll around the Internet and look for studies. You can educate yourself. We here are just providing the knowledge to keep your frogs healthy.

We are not here to criticize or argue. If this were anywhere but here I'm sure most would have turned and walked away, at minimal. We are trying to help you keep your frog(s) healthy. That is all.

I was at work and thought I'd take a few minutes to catch up here and see how things are going with your frog. All that came to mind was, Whoa! What happened while I was away...
Anyhow....

Moss is bad when you feed your frogs on or near it. Same with small rocks or gravel. Perhaps a few of us can recall a photo submitted some time ago by a member here of an X-ray of his frog with a belly full of rocks? It really does happen. Pacs are aggressive eaters. So the members here are trying to caution you of this.

Ugh!!!

The calcium is still important. And your frog needs it or his bones will become brittle and soft and he will be unable to eat properly and will lose limb functions. In comparison, it would be like a human with a worsening osteoporosis, except with frogs, other ailments will compound the problem. Low blood calcium causes tetany. Tetany starts out with numbness and tingling and progresses in order to twitching, flailing, tremors, seizures and paralysis. This is factual medical fact. Calcium is not absorbed well without vitamin D 3. That is why calcium with vita D3 is so important.

Okay, well it's time for me to go to bed as I work a long day tomorrow. I am hoping this helps.

You can be mad at the members for trying to help, though it won't change the facts of proper frog husbandry. We are not the ones to makeup their care guidelines. Science and experience have given this data, which has been shared by experienced members here.

The members here are actually very friendly and helpful. They will go out of their way to teach, educate and get you the help you need. They can very often help situations be corrected before you need a vet. And if you follow their advice, it's unlikely you'll be in those situations... Preventing ailments from occurring, as also was mentioned above.

Good luck to you and your frog! I hope he pulls through.

(Please pardon my poor typing as my eyes are nearly crossed from typing on my phone after a 13 hour shift, 2 hours of frog care on about 5 hrs sleep... Good night all!)