I rushed into ownership, please help!

[kero kero]

So today I was pressured into purchasing one of my wishlist pets (a pacman frog!) and on impulse, sealed the deal. I am right out of high school and live in an apartment, which already happily homes two separate betta tanks, a red clawed crab tank, and now this tiny frog. I pride myself on being a pretty good pet owner, although I've only kept my oldest fish for one year. Still, I'm pretty disappointed in myself for not doing any research before buying the new addition to my family.

The reason I even bought him in the first place is because the store worker told me that I could keep him in the plastic container he came in until he grew another centimeter in diameter, and then upgrade him to an enclosure small enough to fit on the counter. I went ahead and asked my typical questions: the maximum size of the frog, what they eat, and what they need in their habitat to help them thrive. He assured me that the frog needed very little maintenance, a small enclosure (similar to this), no lighting, heat, or specific humidity, some moss, and could be fed every few days goldfish or baby mice.

Once home with the frog I was super excited, but decided to do a bit of research so that I could prepare myself a shopping list for his habitat. I ended up reading that the frogs need a good 10 gallons, NO moss, the ability to burrow, lighting, heating, and should be fed insects! My heart kind of broke at this point... I have absolutely no room for any tank that large, plus the outlets in my bedroom are all occupied by fish tank heaters and filters. I've already told myself that I don't want pets sprawled about the apartment, since I have a roommate and limited space regardless. I bought my frog from a store that specializes in exotic pets including rainbow boas, red-eyed tree frogs, tortoises, snakes, lizards, and saltwater fish of all kinds. All seemingly healthy specimens each time I visit there, that is why I trusted this worker with his care advice.

So, I need your help. I signed up just to ask these questions to see if I should keep this baby green pacman frog or not.
Maintenance for me isn't a problem. I invest a lot of time and money (as much as I can afford) into my pets as-is, so keeping this little guy's habitat immaculate is not the issue. (besides possibly the cost of materials, I am on a budget after all) The frog is currently 1.5 inches in diameter just about, and being kept in a very small plastic container with holes poked into it. The tupperware does contain some dechlorinated water about one centimeter deep for submersion. How long can he survive in this thing? I was told a month... but now I can hardly believe that. Would I be able to keep him in an 8"x8"x8" glass terrarium w/ a lighted hood? (The Exo Terra Nano Wide) That would be ideal for me, if he can live in that, I can consider keeping him. If that's too small, what about 12"x12"x12"? Anything larger would probably be a no-go. Also, do these frogs create a lot of mess, attract excess bugs in the house (like spiders, ants, flies, or something that would lay larvae because of the substrate), or leave a pungent smell? How often should a habitat be cleaned? What sort of lighting/heating fixture should be applied? And are there any good beginner set-up guide links you could provide me with? I am very happy to read.

I would like to thoroughly apologize for my reckless decision... I know it is not really a problem for you frog-owners, but it does make me look and feel quite awful. I'm usually not this way, but he was just so cute. And I really trusted that shop worker, I hope not all of the information he gave to me was false... I'd like to keep the frog, but under the circumstances, if you think my lack of room would make me an unfit owner, I will return him. Please answer my questions if you can! I would be super grateful. Thank you so much!

[Ra]

... a ten gallon isnt that big really. And realistically, a 5.5 gallon will work, if its a male and has a minimalist set up. A Large Exo Terra Breeder Box or Large Faunarium will also work.
A simple 5.5 inch heat reflector lamp with a 25 to 40 watt red bulb (such as a party light) will adequately heat the enclosure. They do need heat, unless your room is about 78 to 82 degrees...So that was pretty misleading of the pet store employee, you should call them and complain.
Theres a care sheet on the site, but heres what I have to say

Enclosure; plastic containers are generally better because they are light weight and easy to clean. The above mentioned large sized plastic terrarium will work, and so will a 16 qt plastic shoe box like you can get at walmart or the dollar store and melt or drill some holes in it for air. Aquariums are heavy, and the enclosure will need to be completely cleaned frequently.

There are two general methods for substrate; you can use coco fiber soil and you can use moss (you just dont want them to ingest any) and this will need to be changed frequently. Coco fiber and moss can be spot cleaned for poop, and dirty moss has the advantage that it be rinsed, dried and reused a few times before it breaks down.
The other method is to get a sheet of aquarium filter wool, or a filter sponge that is about.75 inches or an inch thick or so and place it on the bottom of the terrarium and then place water in it just up to the top of the filter mat. Thats how the asian keepers do it and this is where a plastic container makes it easy, because you want to change the water, rinse the filter pad and scrub the container with a wet sponge (one used only for this, with no cleaners) and simply replace the (treated) water.

If you use moss or coco fiber (not coco husk!) they really dont need a hide, but they will need a small water dish, like a terra cotta saucer which needs to be changed daily. If kept on the wool mat with water, if it is a nervous frog, it may need a little hide, either plastic or curved cork bark cave.

If you use the wool mat and water set up, a small heating pad can be placed under the terrarium, but make sure the terrarium has feet, so hot air can escape and not build up underneath. Otherwise, place it on the side or they will burrow down and cook on top of the heater. I prefer a heat lamp suspended above the terrarium, clamped on to something. Get a small thermometer to keep watch on the temps. Use a low watt red bulb. The plastic containers also hold heat and humidity better than a ten gallon does.

FOOD! The frog ingesting moss or gravel while eating does present a compaction risk, more so with gravel than moss. I dont recommend just tossing crickets into the cage and letting the frog have a go at them. The first major reason is that any supplement powders on the crickets may rub off before the frog eats them, they may drown, chew on the frog or hide in the substrate. The Frog also may ingest quite a bit of substrate when lunging for crickets as well, and this even proves a risk with coco fiber. It is far better to feed with a small pair of feeding tongs, you can get a cheap plastic tweezer at the walgreens that will work just fine, or at a pet store.
DONT feed goldfish, as they are very dirty. Mollys and Platys would be better, but even then there is a risk of them harboring dangerous parasites and diseases from the fisheries they are hatched in. You can raise your own feeder fish or make a bait trap and catch minnows if you live near a lake or river. Pinky mice should be fed sparingly and dipped in Calcium/D3 powder, they are high in fat. A full grown frog can eat a full grown mouse, but this should be once only every month or so. Crickets are fine as long as they are "gut loaded."
A plus is that because they are easy to tong feed, you can use canned crickets as food. I would also recommend buying a bag of Samurai Pacman food. Its a powder you add water to and roll into a gummy ball and its a great food. Between that and canned crickets, you dont even have to mess with live foods.
Another great staple food that is easy and convenient is NIGHTCRAWLERS. You can find them at walmart even, they are cheap and great food for a frog. Make sure they arent died or scented.
Under two inches, feed day or twos, over two inches second or every third day, and when full grown, once or twice a week.

Day time temps need to be between 78 and 84 F. Nighttime they can drop down to 72. Mist daily, but dont make the substrate soggy.

Not a difficult pet as long as you keep them warm enough, their enviroment clean, and you dont over feed them.
They dont need special lighting, they dont need a large enclosure, they dont need live crickets.

Dont feel bad, my first pacman frog was an impulse buy and the employee that sold it to me was just as misleading.

[DVirginiana]

Five gallons is big enough for a baby, but you will need a 10 gallon by the time it is full grown.
For babies, crickets or nightcrawler chunks fed every other day (or every day depending on how young) are good. Wait until they get older to feed things like fish and mice, and then only once or twice a month. Feeding too many mice can case health problems because of the high fat content and also lead to impaction.
Read the caresheet on this forum. Daytime temps should be 80-85 and night temps should be 75-80. Humidity should be around 85%; putting saran wrap over part of the lid helps keep humidity up. You absolutely need a tank heater. If you get a heat mat, put it on the side though not the bottom. You need to get an in-tank thermometer and hygrometer to monitor temp and humidity. Stress from improper housing can make frogs stop eating and even kill them, so you should take care of that ASAP.

Also, from someone living with seven separate reptile/amphibian/fish tanks in a small apartment with a dog and another person: Bookcase. If it's ten gallons or less, get a bookcase, modify it, and tier the setups.

You can use your fish's water dechlorinator to treat tap water for the frog. Take the water out of that plastic container, dip some paper towels in dechlorinated water, and put him on that until you get him a real home. Being soaked in water like that in an air-conditioned apartment could be a death sentence.

I'm really not trying to be rude, but why would you buy a pet without first getting an enclosure for it? Purchasing an animal without even trying to prepare a home for it beforehand is irresponsible.

[Ra]

I'm really not trying to be rude, but why would you buy a pet without first getting an enclosure for it? Purchasing an animal without even trying to prepare a home for it beforehand is irresponsible.

They told him/her it wouldnt need anything bigger for another onth. They also said it didnt need any supplemental heat source.

[BowserFrog]

I like how people always blame the big bad pet stores, don`t people know when they are prepared to take in a living animal? I am sorry if this comes off as rude but there are so many of these threads, does anyone read a care sheet or do anything before ? Seems like a lot of these threads, the real problem is the owner, not the pet store. Never take on a living animal until 100% ready to do so.

[GrifTheGreat]

You know I wish I could get my hands on the MORON!!! that told you they need no heat, lighting, or humidity!!!! If I were you I would not ask anything more from where you purchaser this frog. Obviously they are a bounty of uselessness and bad information. You've been given great information from the members above. I suggest that you follow it and next time DONT rush into a situation that you yourself are not prepared for. These frogs do require a lot of care at baby and juvenile stages. FOOD being the most important. You will need to feed your frog every night YES NIGHT!!! they are nocturnal so you will need to provide a day night cycle 12 hours of day and 12 hours of night. So 7:00 am to 7:00 pm or 8:00 am to 8:00 pm.

My main suggestion for housing as of now is a medium to large critter keeper with one once of Coconut Fiber substrate. A UTH(Under Tank Heater) for Hermit Crab enclosures placed on the back of the keeper. (Hermit Crab UTH are safe for plastic) That should provide enough heat for a small enclosure. Cover the top of the lid for the keeper with Saran Wrap leaving the vents on the ends uncovered and the viewing lid in the center uncovered so you can drop food in. Substrate needs to be moist, but not mud so just heavily damp. Place the water dish in the farther corner away from the UTH. Water dish NEEDS TO BE SHALLOW!! No deeper than half the height of the frog so there is no possible way it can drown. Pacs are terrestrial and are not good swimmers.

Get a Calcium Powder supplement that contains Vitamin D3 and dust the frogs food with it every other feeding. Also purchase a Multivitamin. I suggest Herptivite and dust the food with it once a week, BUT do not dust with both at the same time in the same feeding.

Use small crickets as the main food source and I mean the tiny quarter inch to nearly half inch sized ones. Also use Earthworms/Night Crawlers and cut appropriately sized pieces off the worms starting at the tail and offer them to your frog. Rule of thumb is to not offer food items larger than the distance between the frogs eyes. DO NOT USE MEALWORMS OR SUPERWORMS!! The chitin their exoskeleton is made of cannot be digested by your frog and can cause an impaction(Severe constipation cause by intestinal blockage).

You MUST de-chlorinate any water used for your frog. So you will need a de-chlorinating agent to treat the water before placing it in the frogs enclosure. This includes the water used for misting, expanding substrate, and water dish.

Hopefully everything has been covered here. Any in depth questions feel free to ask.

Don't worry if your frog invests some of the coco fiber while hunting. It almost always passes through without harm. to minimize this issue you will need to teach your frog to tong feed which was stated in the above posts. Also break the hind legs off the crickets before offering them to your frog. This makes them much easier for your frog to catch and also will reduce substrate ingestion.

Keep us posted on the little ones progress.

[kero kero]

Thanks to everyone so much for their replies, it really means a lot to me. I again, apologize for my carelessness. I would never want to mistreat an animal, and although it is my fault for not doing my own research before purchasing, I trusted this man because he's been raising exotic reptiles, fish, and amphibians for years throughout his adulthood. I just felt a bit more secure in his teachings because of how well my roommate's snakes are doing (which he also sold to her and helped set up). But yes, I know, snakes =/= frogs.

What I'm going to do today is make a little shopping list, do some online window-shopping and run to our local PetSmart to evaluate just how much a decent set up will cost me. I'm also going to take my trusty tape-measure and grab the dimensions of a larger enclosure and see what I can fit in here. As DVirginiana suggested, use a book shelf. Well, I already actually have one of my 5.5 fish tanks on the bookshelf and it takes up nearly the whole shelf! Haha. But, I'll do a bit more pushing and see what I can do.
If all else fails, I'll just have to return him, even if the store doesn't accept money-back returns. I want to promise him a good home, he's really stuck to me. And from this experience I have learned to never again buy a pet without being prepared beforehand.

[GrifTheGreat]

Follow the setup I suggested and space will not be an issue.

[kero kero]

I really love this little guy, unfortunately my parents (who help pay for my rent) told me that it's not the best idea to invest into another pet just yet.. because of money and college right now. I was so sure I'd be able to afford it! But they are uncertain, and I like to stay on their good side. So I'm taking him back. But I do vastly appreciate everyone's help here, and I'm going to keep it all in the back of my mind for the near future. I promise to be back someday with a happy frog in a healthy home environment! Also, here's a picture of him before I hit the road..

[GrifTheGreat]

I really love this little guy, unfortunately my parents (who help pay for my rent) told me that it's not the best idea to invest into another pet just yet.. because of money and college right now. I was so sure I'd be able to afford it! But they are uncertain, and I like to stay on their good side. So I'm taking him back. But I do vastly appreciate everyone's help here, and I'm going to keep it all in the back of my mind for the near future. I promise to be back someday with a happy frog in a healthy home environment! Also, here's a picture of him before I hit the road..

For a short time it can go with out a multivitamin. A week or two as long as you're feeding it. Looks to be healthy. I myself have not shipped frogs so I would ask Mike(mikesfrogs) of Mike's Phat Frogs or Jim and Jessica of Ivory Reptiles.

[DVirginiana]

That sucks. I've got so much spare reptile gear lying around I've forgotten how expensive it is to actually go out and purchase an entire new setup.
If I were you I'd go find the guy who sold him and complain... loudly... while his manager is in the room. Everyone eventually learns the 'petstore employees are clueless' lesson, but I think that guy wins the gold.

I was ticked when I read that first post because it sounded like something that you'd normally hear from someone who isn't really serious about giving their animal the care it needs. The fact that you listened to what people on here were saying and actually are actually acting on it, even though that means finding another home for the frog, shows otherwise. Sorry for sounding harsh in that first post.

[kero kero]

That sucks. I've got so much spare reptile gear lying around I've forgotten how expensive it is to actually go out and purchase an entire new setup.
If I were you I'd go find the guy who sold him and complain... loudly... while his manager is in the room. Everyone eventually learns the 'petstore employees are clueless' lesson, but I think that guy wins the gold.

I was ticked when I read that first post because it sounded like something that you'd normally hear from someone who isn't really serious about giving their animal the care it needs. The fact that you listened to what people on here were saying and actually are actually acting on it, even though that means finding another home for the frog, shows otherwise. Sorry for sounding harsh in that first post.

I know I was completely careless... and I felt terrible. I did return the little guy and plan on buying one when I'm ready in the near future. Luckily the store sells tons of fish supplies, so I was able to use store credit to spoil my other pets today.
It's alright, you were only harsh because you're a pet owner and you care about your animals. I'd feel the same for any creature with an inadequate set-up myself. Thanks for your input and I'll save it for later use. :-)

[IrishRonin]

I would like to thank you for giving 2 S***s about the animals in your care. I'm the curator at an animal exhibit and I see to many little ones(frogs,reptiles, mammals and birds) brought in by people who bought them on a whim without any knowledge or an drive to find some, like you did, to properly care for them. The sad part is by the time I get them they are usually on there last leg, I do what I can and there are some success story's but most are to far gone to do much. I have almost lost my job a few times for letting them know how I feel about what they have done to a poor helpless animal. Anyway I look forward to your return to our community when you do finaly get another frog, I bet everyone will agree with me on this, now you've been bitten but the amphibian bug and you'll never be able to shake it, see you soon.

[arielgasca420]

I wont chastise your impulsive decision because i have done it myself. For the sake of the animal please consider taking it back before it is too late to return it. I would stick with the bettas and practice with those because 1 year is too short for a betta if kept in good condition. ive had mine for at least a year but I make sure the temperature and nitrogen fixation is good. I would wait until you have more knowledge and experience because frogs are very difficult to keep in captivity. If I were you maybe think of researching aquatic frogs since aquatic seems to be your thing. I would hold off thought because you are young and a long term commitment animal is something you dont need right now.

[BowserFrog]

I really love this little guy, unfortunately my parents (who help pay for my rent) told me that it's not the best idea to invest into another pet just yet.. because of money and college right now. I was so sure I'd be able to afford it! But they are uncertain, and I like to stay on their good side. So I'm taking him back. But I do vastly appreciate everyone's help here, and I'm going to keep it all in the back of my mind for the near future. I promise to be back someday with a happy frog in a healthy home environment! Also, here's a picture of him before I hit the road..

Am I the only one who feels for this frog? Looks like he was being drowned 2.... Pacs are terrible swimmers...

[GrifTheGreat]

Am I the only one who feels for this frog? Looks like he was being drowned 2.... Pacs are terrible swimmers...

The water is not too deep. chin depth is the max and the breathe through their nostrils.

[kero kero]

I wont chastise your impulsive decision because i have done it myself. For the sake of the animal please consider taking it back before it is too late to return it. I would stick with the bettas and practice with those because 1 year is too short for a betta if kept in good condition. ive had mine for at least a year but I make sure the temperature and nitrogen fixation is good. I would wait until you have more knowledge and experience because frogs are very difficult to keep in captivity. If I were you maybe think of researching aquatic frogs since aquatic seems to be your thing. I would hold off thought because you are young and a long term commitment animal is something you dont need right now.

Oh, my bettas are still alive and thriving! I've faced some fin rot and torn fins from poorly-picked plastic plants, but those were all great learning experiences. I'd say I visit the pet store at least 3 times a week just to look at the supplies, pick up information brochures, and daydream about my future pet setups. But for now, I'm putting more research into my current pets just to get a better grasp on pet handling. I won't be purchasing another frog until I've stuffed my brain with knowledge and have the finances and space to give him or her the best enclosure possible. And no worries, I did return the frog today.

Am I the only one who feels for this frog? Looks like he was being drowned 2.... Pacs are terrible swimmers...

I couldn't replace the water with a moist paper towel since the store keeps them the way depicted, but I did lower the water level a bit more after hearing they could easily drown. He's just fine!

@IrishRonin You're right, I absolutely have to have another green pacman in my possession some day! It was really heartbreaking to see the little cutie go... but I know he'll have a higher chance for a better home this way.

Although my experience with pets is little, proper care is still important to me. And really the only way to learn is to research and apply your findings (hoping they are backed by a reliable source, of course!) to your pet-care routine and progress through any mistakes. So once I do get the opportunity, a long-term pet like a frog doesn't intimidate me in the least. Rest assured to every frog owner here, I'll do my best. And no more impulse buys! For now, here's another picture I took before bringing him back to the store.

[arielgasca420]

In flad you did the right thing. Honestly i would wait until after college to get a frog. Im in college now and working full time with two frogs and other animals. Its tough work to manage time

[Wizzlewuzzle]

Well if you want to stuff your brain with frog knowledge, this forum is absolutely the best place I've found for it!

[kero kero]

In flad you did the right thing. Honestly i would wait until after college to get a frog. Im in college now and working full time with two frogs and other animals. Its tough work to manage time

Well actually I am not worrying about work at the moment, only school. But I'll keep this in mind before buying. Thanks!

Well if you want to stuff your brain with frog knowledge, this forum is absolutely the best place I've found for it!

It seems really helpful so far!