Where.to.start..?

[froglover27]

Just recently convinced the family to make a PDF terrarium.....I was just curious to know 'the necessities' for poison dart frogs. Also, what are good starter frogs that are hardy and not too shy?? Thanks!!
~Justine

[DonLisk]

Baasicly your going to crete a high humidity enviorement. They will tolerate temp down to about 60 and no higher than 85. Best to be between 80 and 82 in my opinion. To keep the humidity up you would be using a full glass top for the tank or if using Exo-Terra or Zoo Med enclosure, covering the top screen completely.

Since you will be feeding fruit flies, you will need to bug proof a exo or Zoo Med enclosure since there are many places for the flies to escape around the doors and through the installed vents.

As for a frog choice, the most common starter dart is the Dendrobates Leucomelas Bumblebee Dart Frog. Bold and does well in groups.

[froglover27]

Baasicly your going to crete a high humidity enviorement. They will tolerate temp down to about 60 and no higher than 85. Best to be between 80 and 82 in my opinion. To keep the humidity up you would be using a full glass top for the tank or if using Exo-Terra or Zoo Med enclosure, covering the top screen completely.

Since you will be feeding fruit flies, you will need to bug proof a exo or Zoo Med enclosure since there are many places for the flies to escape around the doors and through the installed vents.

As for a frog choice, the most common starter dart is the Dendrobates Leucomelas Bumblebee Dart Frog. Bold and does well in groups.

Wait, so do they need any ventilation at all? And I will be feeding fruit flies. Just found out the LPS near me sells 'em Also, any idea of where to get a dendrobates leucomelas Bumblebee dart frog?? They are BEAUTIFUL!!!

[froglover27]

Oh and also....can you give me any feedback for Dendrobates ventrimaculatus? thanks!!

[DonLisk]

Dendrobates ventrimaculatusare is an intermediate level for keeping but if your tank setup is right, then they should be fine.

Many of these frogs are available through breeders and some of them sponsor this site so i myself would be looking there first.
You can also watch for a local or nearby reptile expo and then select some at the show. Many of the sponsors also attend the expos so you can deal with them prior to a show for bringing along just what you want and held for you.
This would save you on shipping and possible shipping problems. I haven't had issues myself but weather does rule shipping since they won't be shipped if its too hot for their survival.

As for ventilation, most dart tanks are completely closed up. They don't require air flow like a tree frog and your occasional opening of the top or door to add flies or do maintenance is more than enough for them. Now, some plants do like ventilation so some build in special fans to move air in and out of the tank without creating a place for the flies or frogs to escape.
I don't have fans on my tanks.

[cbrousseau]

I was in your spot this time last year . It's vary exciting isn't it? (and it can get addicting vary fast) I got 4 d.tinctorius matechos for my first frogs i got a group hopping that I would get a breeding pair witch i did and just got my first eggs. I love the tinctorius's because they are big bold frogs you look in the tank and they are always out so that was a huge plus. I wouldn't go with The smaller frogs like the thumbnails size ones because of the size.. They are beautiful but i don't know they don't do anything for me I like to be able to see my frogs you know? Just do your homework and read up before you do anything so you know what your diveing into that's what I did and everything went great

As for ventilation like don said some people do the whole fan things I wouldn't worry about it for your first tank keep it simple!

Good luck!!!,
cameron

[DonLisk]

I agree. Keeping it simple is will mean less maintenance and worry when your first starting out.

Look at some of the build journals. There are several that members, including myself, have posted that will guide you through some pretty easy setups.

You will see many with cool backgrounds, you basically just need a good drainage layer, the top substrate, and plants.
If your tank location has a normal room temp of 65 to 70 at night and 70 to 75 during the day, your all set to just add some day lighting and have some happy frogs.
Keeping humidity up is easy if you have the top almost completely closed up too.


Your family will love having frogs that are out and visible during the day time hours.

[froglover27]

what tank size should I purchase for four at the most and is four an 'ok group' for Dendrobates Leucomelas? How should I deal with ventilation for plants, if i use a glass top? I was hoping to do a cool background like some I've seen on here...but where to start haha!! And as for the false bottom....Does it need a 'drainage hole'? Lastly, I have a large magnolia tree in my front yard...I have heard darts like the magnolia leaves. How can I make sure they're clean? A good rinse?Thanks guys!! You are the best!!

[DonLisk]

I like a 20 Long for a build for them since they are mostly bottom dwellers. 4 should but just fine in a 20 long.

I siphon my drainage area with a hose but you could drill and build in a drain hole if your ok with drilling glass.
Magnolia leave can be boiled then dried in an over at about 200 degree but you have to watch them carefully so they don't bburn up.
I get mine from josh's frogs for pretty short money. I use the live oak and sea grape leaves since the live oak is smaller and the sea grape has some cool colors.


As for ventilation, Pick up the matching glass split canopy top and instead of using the plastic extention where a filter system would go, make a screen like the ones used for home windows.

Its actually simple and I bet you could even give the measurements to a Lowes employee and they would cut it for you.
When cutting the material take into consideration the corners.

Here is a link to making the screen: How to Make a Window Screen: 10 steps (with pictures) - wikiHow

Here is an example from the front of one of my verticals. your would be just made to be placed on top.

[froglover27]

I have a tank that I'm not sure if it's a 15 long or 20 long, but how would you siphon if all the 'materials' are on top of it?? Oh goodness And also, are leucs terrestrial more than arboreal? I have a normal tank...not an Exo-terra...so the whole tank is glass except for the SCREEN top.....How should I deal with that haha. Gosh, you are so helpful! Thanks

[DonLisk]

Dart frogs areterrestrial Sometimes they will start calling before lights on and after lights out.

For drainage, I have a corner where I can lift the screen material that seperates the drainage area and substrate. I use a aquarium siphon hose and have the collection bucket lower than the tank so i can get it draining with suction. Stole plenty of gas when I was a kid.... only kidding :-)

You can use a pump like this one : Walmart.com: Battery-Operated Liquid Transfer Siphon Pump: Automotive

Or you can have the tank drilled and a drain valve added.


As for what you have, that should be fine as long as you cover about 90 percent of the screen top with clear pleni-glass (available at lowes for about 6bucks and cut by them to your measurements free) or a piece of glass.
Just want to make sure enough light gets through the screen to service the plants needs.

[froglover27]

Could I possibly just somehow make a 'slope' into a pond from the bottom and just clean that every once in awhile? OH! I just found a plug in the bottom of mine! So I guess I could drain it that way?? And could it be plexi-glass or just regular glass?? Thanks for the replies!!

[DonLisk]

You can use plexi-glass but it seems to warp from heat. If the Plexi is on top of the screen top then it works fine. A glass top is stiffer so it handles the heat from a lighting fixture better.

Here is what the canopy glass tops look like and give easy access to the tank for feeding and maintenance.

[DonLisk]

If you decide you need ventilation you could use one of these: Aquarium Cooling Fans: Zoo Med Aqua Cool Aquarium Cooling Fan AA-13

[froglover27]

Okay...So, this is kind of like my rough draft. I'm going to do a false bottom with LECA, ABG(maybe?), and leaf litter(with magnolia leaves) Oh, and these aren't really any specific plants! They are just random Any input would be awesome!!!!

[DonLisk]

Small bromeliads placed into the background facing out vise up will work great. The frogs will use them to hide and sleep. They will also lay eggs in them.
I say small since many will way outgrow the tank but there re tons of varieties that stay sort of small.

Cryptanthus is also another good choice, likes damp soil and takes some time to outgrow the tank. The frogs like to use these to climb onto branches and will also use them to perch on when watching for flies.

[froglover27]

So, does my design look okay?? And I was going to go with bromeliads anyway!! Also, is Cryptanthus zonatus okay to use?? What about ferns?? And how can I insure that the plants are free of fertilizers?? Thanks!!

[froglover27]

Is there place to buy canopy glass tops? Or is it cheaper to make them??

[helm96]

So I use these to top all my Dart Frog enclosures. Aqueon® Versa-Top™ Hinged Glass Top - Lighting & Hoods - Fish - PetSmart . They work pretty good. It would be cheaper to buy and have the glass cut at Lowes but you will have to buy a hinge for the lid to make feedings easier, I have only found the hinges online. That is why I buy the aqueon lids. They are a little more expensive but they can be dropped on top og the enclosure right out of the box. I have no ventelation in the top of my Dart enclosures. The more plants you have the more oxygen you will get. Another thing to consider is also the more plants you have the more your Darts will be out because they will feel safer if they can hide easier. I would recommend the ABG soil mix as well as a springtail culture.

The spring tails are great. They serve a few purposes, they can be a food sorce for the darts as well as they are janitors in the tank because they love to eat any mold that maybe developing in the tank. Another good note is after you have the enclosure setup let the eco system run for about 2-3 weeks before adding any Darts. This will give you time to make sure that all the plants will work and get a good root before your little guys get added. It can be really stressful to them if you are replacing half of the plants in the tank right after you put them in. I have been there!

Hope this helps. Buyer beware, Dart frogs are highly addicting!!!!!!

[froglover27]

So I use these to top all my Dart Frog enclosures. Aqueon® Versa-Top™ Hinged Glass Top - Lighting & Hoods - Fish - PetSmart . They work pretty good. It would be cheaper to buy and have the glass cut at Lowes but you will have to buy a hinge for the lid to make feedings easier, I have only found the hinges online. That is why I buy the aqueon lids. They are a little more expensive but they can be dropped on top og the enclosure right out of the box. I have no ventelation in the top of my Dart enclosures. The more plants you have the more oxygen you will get. Another thing to consider is also the more plants you have the more your Darts will be out because they will feel safer if they can hide easier. I would recommend the ABG soil mix as well as a springtail culture.

The spring tails are great. They serve a few purposes, they can be a food sorce for the darts as well as they are janitors in the tank because they love to eat any mold that maybe developing in the tank. Another good note is after you have the enclosure setup let the eco system run for about 2-3 weeks before adding any Darts. This will give you time to make sure that all the plants will work and get a good root before your little guys get added. It can be really stressful to them if you are replacing half of the plants in the tank right after you put them in. I have been there!

Hope this helps. Buyer beware, Dart frogs are highly addicting!!!!!!

Okay! So I will plan on buying the top And do i have to culture my own springtails out of the tank as well?? Thanks!!