Both dead...WHY?

[NatureLady]

My cute little babies that I purchased at the last expo are both dead now. I would like any and all help to figure out what possibly might have gone wrong with them and if my Pimby is at risk of death too.



The one on the left was a blue phase WTF and the one on the right was a blue eyed WTF.

As you can see they where in a plastic pet tote that had paper towel, a bit of moss that they where housed in, a branch, and water dish.

The blue never ate, didn't seem to be losing weight, didn't move much, and had a really bad shed that I had to remove from his front legs and some out of his mouth. He flipped upside down yesterday afternoon and was unable to right himself. I helped him over and he never moved. He died about two hours later. He looked bloated, but his legs where really skinny. (Hadn't noticed that before, since he was always in the same spot.) The picture below is after...




The blue eye was moving, eating, pooped a few times, but started to get a bit skinny (stress is what I thought). Today I cam home and he was upside down and dead.

Now on to my only living WTF Pimby, the original...


My youngest child is into everything and to keep them safe in our tiny house I would put the pet tote into the 18x18x24 while she was awake and the frogs where asleep. Will whatever they had kill my only survivor? I just read an article that said the quarantine tank should be located in a totally different room...GREAT! I am really sad and I seriously have no clue as to what happened to these guys. Any help...I thank in advance...

[lukebaksavich]

You should clean/disinfect anything the frogs touched. I am presuming you purchased these frogs from a large reptile supply company. Even if you buy captive bred, those places are known for putting amphibians from all over together. Whatever you buy from these companies should be completely separate of any of your long term captives. Also what kind of water did the frogs have. If you used distilled/RO, and the enclosure does not have any minerals, you could be diffusing minerals out of your frog, which is obviously not a good move. I would have some gravel or something similar in the drainage layer to prevent this.

[NatureLady]

I use nothing but spring water for them. I have hydro balls for drainage. I purchased them from a guy that sells at our reptile shows and has a pet store in a neighboring state. He stated that he kept red eyes and dumpys together at the store.

[helm96]

Amanda,
I am so sorry for your loss! I wish I knew more about this type of situation. I have not encountered anything like this so I will be interested to hear the comments. If you wanted to be extra safe and eliminate as many chances as possible of anything happening then I would say that you might clean out and sterilize your tank, but that maybe over kill. Hopefully one of the veterns here will chime in with some good advice to help you out. Once again sorry to hear what happened.

[Bolisnide]

Ooh, this is so sad! I'm very sorry for the loss of your frogs

[GrifTheGreat]

Sounds like Chytrid. photo of the Blue phase looks like the photos I've seen of dead victims of Chytrid. I'm no expert and don't own tree frogs, but sounds very similar to the infection. Can't know for sure without a necropsy being performed. wow as everyone has said.

I'm very sorry for your loss.

[lukebaksavich]

What were the temps. Chytrid fungus is a possibility, but if the
Temp was higher(above 75 f), not at all likely. Lots of things can cause
bloating. Something this quick would suggest to me bacterial infection. I reiterate that the whole setup should be cleaned if you want to be sure!

[flybyferns]

Amanda,
So sorry to hear this.

[DonLisk]

So sorry Amanda :-(

I so wish I had an answer for you.

[NatureLady]

What were the temps. Chytrid fungus is a possibility, but if the
Temp was higher(above 75 f), not at all likely. Lots of things can cause
bloating. Something this quick would suggest to me bacterial infection. I reiterate that the whole setup should be cleaned if you want to be sure!

They where warmer in the day then 75F, but cooler than 75F at night. His belly wasn't red like the photo's I saw.

All the same...quarintine tank is bleached and ready for him to stay there while I clean the viv like a crazy lady...just to be safe.

Thank you each and all for your kind words.

[NatureLady]

Does anyone think I need to treat Pimby, just in case? Or just watch closely?

[RedHed]

You can always have his fecals tested just in case he has something but isn't showing signs .... Then I would just keep a good eye on him

[lukebaksavich]

You could have a fecal done, but be aware that a fecal would only rule out some pathogens (chytrid
For instance is best diagnosed with pcr). Also fecals do not always come back positive when there is a problem (this is notoriously true for parasites, which is why multiple fecals are typically recommended). I would simply keep the frog in a clean enclosure and monitor things. Keep an eye on its sheds, its activity, etc. Good luck!

[Leefrogs]

4-5 things I see. One, the papertowels have print on them. Then the cage is probably small, and you should cover 3 sides with new arrivals. Stress...
Then all the crickets are going to hide in the moss, a swollen frog is sign of impaction. And then there's no hiding spots at all. Stress again. And possibly a bacterial infection from having to sit in water all the time. WTF can be 50% hummidity, and they have a waterbowl to hydrate in.
But no frog likes to feel exposed on all 4 sides, especially in a new home.

[NatureLady]

4-5 things I see. One, the papertowels have print on them. Then the cage is probably small, and you should cover 3 sides with new arrivals. Stress...
Then all the crickets are going to hide in the moss, a swollen frog is sign of impaction. And then there's no hiding spots at all. Stress again. And possibly a bacterial infection from having to sit in water all the time. WTF can be 50% hummidity, and they have a waterbowl to hydrate in.
But no frog likes to feel exposed on all 4 sides, especially in a new home.

LeeFrogs...
Thank you for this comment.

The paper towel with print was only in the tank for an hour or two while I ran to the store for plain paper towels. It was all I had at the time. Suppose I should have opted for no towel. Would that exposure time have harmed them?

Crickets where only offered from a glass bowl. First frog never went anywhere near the moss, because he never moved from the spot he was in. (not even during the night)

The photo taken above was just for the first few hours of the 18 days that I had them...Larger branch to climb was added. Good size of live potho's was added. Moss was not in there the entire time, the moss was what frog was purchased with.

Do you not suggest damp paper towel for a quarantine tank? (in regards to sitting in water all the time) I thought that was standard?

Are you thinking that this was just a stress thing?

I have very young children...my house is always crazy and less then peaceful for the majority of the day.

[GrifTheGreat]

What were the temps. Chytrid fungus is a possibility, but if the
Temp was higher(above 75 f), not at all likely. Lots of things can cause
bloating. Something this quick would suggest to me bacterial infection. I reiterate that the whole setup should be cleaned if you want to be sure!

From what I've read. Chytrid thrives in the average temps of most frog environments. it dies off only if temps that are 90° and above for up to 6 hours. Like you said though. Its almost impossible to tell without the frog being examined or the skin tested.

[Kurt]

It's not chytridiomycosis. If anything it was edema, which has a few possible causes, bacterial infection and kidney failure come to mind. I believe you purchased ill frogs. That's why you should never, ever introduce new frogs to old ones until after a 30-day quarantine has passed without any issues. I purchased a pair of Dermatonotus meulleri last January. Almost the same story. Neither would eat and one died with in a week of purchase, the other three weeks later and that was after seeing the vet.
Paper towels are a standard quarantine substrate, just make sure to change them often.
Also, you should never house red-eyes and White's together. I wouldn't buy from a vendor who did, because obviously he/she has not a clue as to what he/she is doing.