started my project

[zig3y]

hey there!
making my false bottom this weekend and I am going from Don's guide http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...se-bottom.html
So far I have the PVC pipe, egg crate and mesh in place. I am now wondering if the pump is a must have? I would like a water feature but I would like to add that maybe somewhere else were just in case if the pump stops working I could pull it out easier (Don if your reading this some more advice would help out a lot).

[J Teezy]

first how big is your enclosure and what type of frogs. If doing darts you don't "need" a water feature and they end up taking up lots of valuable floor space if a small enclosure for darts. Water features look nice but are usually more pain than they are worth

[zig3y]

I have a 12x12x18 enclosure, I would like to get a couple dart frogs or clown frogs in the viv when I am done. The water feature does seem like a hassle and I also have a repti-fogger and a water dish so I do not need the water feature.

[DonLisk]

I don't have water features and not a big fan of them.

As for the drainage layer needing a pump. It is not needed but you do need to have a place where you can slide a hose into the drainage area to siphon off excess water. I do this in a corner and have excess screen material (the screen on top of the eggcrate) to allow for lifting the substrate slightly and sliding the siphon hose down in.

The pump in that thread had the hose run up through the substrate and could allow for either drainage by attaching a hose to the hose coming from the pump when drainage is needed, or to supply a water feature if desired.

[J Teezy]

darts don't really need a water feature or water dish and if this is your first build i wouldn't mess with a water feature and your enclosure a water feature would take away too much ground space

[zig3y]

thanks for the advice! I would just like to just clarify what I just read, I don't need a pump but I do need the hose so i can extract the water from the bottom? Is this right?

[DonLisk]

I have a 12x12x18 enclosure, I would like to get a couple dart frogs or clown frogs in the viv when I am done. The water feature does seem like a hassle and I also have a repti-fogger and a water dish so I do not need the water feature.

If your doing darts, then forget the water feature. You are going to want all the floor space available and get as much land/terrain as possible for the frogs and some live plants. No water dish is needed for dart frogs. They drink by absorption and get this from the leaves and moist soil. Your going to need to keep high humidity so closing up most of the tank's ventilation is going to be the main concern.

[DonLisk]

Yes, but the hose can be kept out of the viv until needed for draining the drainage area. You may never need to drain it, or you may need to drain it often. That depends on how well the viv evaporates the excess water or if it just collects it in the bottom.

[zig3y]

alright sounds great to me thanks for all the advice once again this has been a ton of help I would be lost with out this forum! and I have no concerns on humidity problems I believe I should be good there though.

[DonLisk]

How deep are you making the false bottom? You may want to reconsider the false bottom since this is a small viv and think about using large stone fish tank gravel or a bag of hydroballs which will take up less of your bottom. You can get away with probably a 1 inch deep gravel or hydroball layer and then the moss layer with a layer of plantation soil or eco-earth on top of the moss.

You may even not want the moss layer but I like it for the moisture retention which should help with the tanks need for higher humidity.

[DonLisk]

alright sounds great to me thanks for all the advice once again this has been a ton of help I would be lost with out this forum! and I have no concerns on humidity problems I believe I should be good there though.

Check out Josh's ten gallon vertical (linked in post #5 above) which looks great and might give you an idea for your build.

[zig3y]

The PVC pipe i only made 1 inch tall so I did end up making it work and I have about 1.5 inches of soil...... is that enough for plants? If not I have an idea t get it to go higher. And josh does have a really nice tank and that does give me a better idea of what I can do.

[DonLisk]

what plants are you using? Small bromeliads would be best for them since they will hid and gather moisture from them.
Bromeliads don't need soil so they have be set into cork rounds or tied to a piece of wood or even stuck into a background. Then one small plant that has low growth would be fine in 1 1/2 inch of soil... something like creeping fig.

[zig3y]

yeah I was planning on picking up a bromeliad and hopefully some moss if possible. One thing that I have not been able to find though is leaves..... what kind of leaves should I get and where do you think I could get them?

[DonLisk]

I use leaf liter from Black Jungle Terrarium Supply or Joshsfrogs.com. I like the Live Oak leaves for dart tanks since it retains moisture like little cups.
There are a few versions of bromeliads that stay small and you could actually get two or three of the small ones in there for the frogs to climb on and hid in.

Here re some small Broms I grabbed up at Black Jungle one day...

[zig3y]

wow some great websites I never new about ( black jungle and joshs frogs), is it a good idea to order plants from them? do they come in in good condition and not harmed? also I saw they sold frogs, is it a good idea to browse there for a frog or is a local store better?

[DonLisk]

Depends on how much you trust the quality of frogs at a local store. Josh, Black Jungle, LLL Reptiles, and some of the breeders on this forum all have great reputations for delivering nice healthy frogs. check out the for sale section of the forum and look at the testimonials too.

As for plants, find what you want and then call and let them know how small you need or to ask questions before buying. I like to pick my plants to make sure they fit my need.

[zig3y]

okay sounds great, thanks for all the help and the great resources!

[DonLisk]

Here is a great article on Bromeliads for you to check out: Bromeliads in the Dart Frog Terrarium

[zig3y]

very interesting, did not realize there were so many different kind of bromeliads out there. So many more options on what to put in my viv!