Looking for good internet dealer.

[mikeald]

I couldn't find anybody who knew a valliceps from a terrestris at our last local reptile expo and no pet shops in my area carry bufos, so does anybody know an internet dealer who I can trust to send me what I ordered?

[Kurt]

Wow! No one could identify a Gulf coast from a southern toad? By the way the genus Bufo has recently been broken up into several smaller genera. The two new names for these toads are Ollotis valliceps and Anaxyrus terrestris, respectively. I am a fan of Bufonids myself as well.

As far as good dealers are concerned, I have dealt with Reptile Kingdom out of New Jersey. He does mail order, but my dealings with him have always been at the Manchester, NH show. I hear good things about Glades.

[mikeald]

It was at the Glades table at our local expo that the toads were improperly identified. I guess they were more interested in bigger things than a few toads.

I heard they broke up the Bufo genus but I have yet to find a conversion chart, and have been unable as of yet to wrap my head around the new names. Please forgive me if I hang on to the old ways for awhile.

[Kurt]

I heard they broke up the Bufo genus but I have yet to find a conversion chart, and have been unable as of yet to wrap my head around the new names. Please forgive me if I hang on to the old ways for awhile.

It's quite ok. Most of the North American Bufonids are now in the genus Anaxyrus. The rest are in Ollotis. Below are just some examples of these changes. Ollotis seems to be more a Central American genus.

Anaxyrus americanus
Anaxyrus debilis
Anaxyrus hemiophrys
Anaxyrus punctatus
Anaxyrus quercicus

Ollotis alvaria
Ollotis valliceps

[mikeald]

So were does nebulifer fit in to this? I always thought they seperated valliceps by area based on extremely small DNA difference that was undetectable by any method other than an electron micoscope. And were does valliceps wilsoni fit in now? And is incilius finally dead? I have not grown past The Frog Book. Mary C. Dickerson made it all make sense.

[Kurt]

So were does nebulifer fit in to this? I always thought they seperated valliceps by area based on extremely small DNA difference that was undetectable by any method other than an electron micoscope. And were does valliceps wilsoni fit in now? And is incilius finally dead? I have not grown past The Frog Book. Mary C. Dickerson made it all make sense.

First let me state that I was not even aware the Ollotis valliceps had any subspecies, but if it does, they too would be under the genus Ollotis. Nubulifer was been split from valliceps based on DNA. It too would be under the genus Ollotis, so it would then be Ollotis nubulifer. According to what I read, Ollotis valliceps is now only found in Central America because of this change.

In my search for an answer to your queries, I found that the Rococo toad is no longer considered to be Bufo paracnemis. It's taxonomic name has been changed to Rhinella schneideri (Werner, 1894).

Under the new revisons, the genus Bufo is no longer found in the Americas.

[mikeald]

I give up. I think I just need to find a Bufo to modern, confusing, complicated genus conversion chart on the internet, and hang it next to my computer so I can at least seem intelligent.

[John]

I give up. I think I just need to find a Bufo to modern, confusing, complicated genus conversion chart on the internet, and hang it next to my computer so I can at least seem intelligent.

Many authorities (including amphibiaweb.org) have yet to adopt those designations and there is quite a bit of controversy over them. I see a lot of ordinary people jumping on the new name bandwagon. It would be wiser to wait and see if the name changes get rebuffed by new other research which is in the works right now.

[tylototriton]

I agree with John. I personally hate these name changes. If you use Bufo everyone will understand. We have the same situation with Eleutherodactylus and Hyla, etc. No one is going to fault you for using "older" names and unless you're writing a paper, it honestly doesn't matter.

Alex

[Kurt]

I give up. I think I just need to find a Bufo to modern, confusing, complicated genus conversion chart on the internet, and hang it next to my computer so I can at least seem intelligent.

You seem quite intelligent to me. You had me scrambling for an answer to your question. It took me a little while to accept the new names and I often still use the old ones. Taxonomic names are kind of my thing, so that's why I try to keep up on them.

We had a science Olympiad this past weekend and we accepted the old names as well as the new. Unfortunately, a lot of the kids were confusing the genus and family names. So if we asked for the genus we got the family name. I think we need to provide a prep class for them next year.