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Thread: Trouble in the Enclosure

  1. #1
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Trouble in the Enclosure

    “Trouble in the Frog Enclosure”
    The following information will be very helpful if provided when requesting assistance with either your frog or enclosure. To help with your questions, please utilize the below list and post the information in the proper forum area to get advice from FF members that keep the same frog. This will allow for little confusion and a faster more informed response.

    1. Size of enclosure
    2. # of inhabitants - specifically other frogs and size differences
    3. Humidity
    4. Temperature
    5. Water - type - for both misting and soaking dish
    6. Materials used for substrate
    7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials.
    - How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.
    8. Main food source
    9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often)
    10. Lighting
    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
    12. When is the last time he/she ate
    13. Have you found poop lately
    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
    15. Describe frog's symptoms and/or recent physical changes; to include it's ventral/belly area.
    16. How old is the frog
    17. How long have you owned him/her
    18. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred
    19. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats
    20. How often the frog is handled
    21. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
    22. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)

    by Lynn(Flybyferns) and GrifTheGreat.
    Last edited by Mentat; February 11th, 2014 at 02:14 PM.


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  3. #2
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    Hi all, Hope you don't mind that I put a sticky to this and put it at the top of the General Discussion and News section. I think it would be easier for all to find here.

    Nice job :-)
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf/ Frog - Agalychnis callidryas
    1.1.1 Bumblebee Dart Frog - Dendrobates leucomelas
    1.1.0 Dendrobates truncatus - Yellow Striped
    1.1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius – Bakhuis Mountain
    1.1.0 - Dendrobates tinctorius - Powder Blue
    1.1.0 - Ranitomeya vanzolinii

  4. #3
    TaikiKago
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    As requested..

    1. 5 gallons since he was only about the size of a quarter (when he would have gotten bigger he'd have been 'upgraded')
    2. 1 inhabitant
    3. Humidity was around 75-80
    4. Temperature was at least 83 F during the day, 75 F at night
    5. Treated water
    6. Eco Earth coconut fiber
    7. Water dish, artificial plants, rock cave thing from the pet store (all were washed and cleaned prior to being put into the viv)
    8. Small crickets
    9. Vitamins and calcium once a week (one day, skip a day or two and then the calcium)
    10. Red lamp above the tank
    11. Heat pad and heat lamp
    12. About 2 days prior to passing
    13. The day before he passed
    14. I'll see if I can find one on the phone
    15. Unsure, but the size of the quarter
    18. He only ate crickets and the occasional worm cut down to size
    19. Once every day to clean water if he was in it, and tong feed
    20. Low traffic area
    21. Water was cleaned every morning, tank was supposed to be cleaned today, plants were cleansed when they looked a little dirty.

    :/ I just want to figure out why he may have died and what I should do differently when the time comes to get another pacman.

  5. #4
    infamouschris7
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    1. Recently switched from 10 to 20 gallon
    2. Single pacman
    3. Have a humidity gauge that reads normal
    4. 78-80 degrees
    5. Tap water with conditioner bought from petsmart
    6. Recently addded moss. Coco fiber already in tank
    7. Coco fiber on bottom. Moss on the side with some artificial plants and a water bowl
    8. Crickets and superworms
    9. Not sure about the vitamins part
    10. Bulb bought from petsmart. Kept on during the day and turned off at night till next morning
    11. My room is the warmest room in the house. The bulb produces some heat
    12. 2 days ago. Tiny frozen pinkie. Got him to open his mouth and put it completely in his mouth
    13. Not lately
    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
    15. Have had the frog since mid february. Not sure about the actual age, but was smaller than a quarter then
    16. Since February
    17. Captive bred
    18. Whenever i can get it to eat
    19. I occasionally move him in his water bowl if he hasnt gone in it.
    20. Low traffice
    21. I clean the fiber once a month and clean his bowl each time after i place him in the water

  6. #5
    Ivan M
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by infamouschris7 View Post
    1. Recently switched from 10 to 20 gallon
    2. Single pacman
    3. Have a humidity gauge that reads normal
    4. 78-80 degrees
    5. Tap water with conditioner bought from petsmart
    6. Recently addded moss. Coco fiber already in tank
    7. Coco fiber on bottom. Moss on the side with some artificial plants and a water bowl
    8. Crickets and superworms
    9. Not sure about the vitamins part
    10. Bulb bought from petsmart. Kept on during the day and turned off at night till next morning
    11. My room is the warmest room in the house. The bulb produces some heat
    12. 2 days ago. Tiny frozen pinkie. Got him to open his mouth and put it completely in his mouth
    13. Not lately
    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine)
    15. Have had the frog since mid february. Not sure about the actual age, but was smaller than a quarter then
    16. Since February
    17. Captive bred
    18. Whenever i can get it to eat
    19. I occasionally move him in his water bowl if he hasnt gone in it.
    20. Low traffice
    21. I clean the fiber once a month and clean his bowl each time after i place him in the water

    Ok i will try and be of some help here, I WOULD remove the Moss, Moss can cause impaction in the frogs gut and could lead to problems, coco fiber is all that is needed, when you say Humidity meter reads NORMAL, what is normal? the humidity level should be around 80% or so. In terms of the vitamins part you should dust your crickets with a vitamin supplement EX: REPASHY CALCIUM PLUS, or something equivalent. There is no need for you to place your froggy in the water, they will go in there on their own, remember the more you handle him/her the more stress you may be causing, also if i were you i would put him back in that 10 gallon tank, a 20 gallon for him alone is way to big. You can always split that 20 down the line with plexiglass or something and keep 2 pacmans in there, separate from each other of course but in 1 tank, hence the divider of the tank. The mouse thing should only be fed once a month if that. Earthworms/nightcrawlers are the best meal for these guys, you can cut up an earth worm into 3rds and feed appropriately. Also remember when they are moved to a new enclosure like you stated it may take them a little while to feel secure enough again to settle down and start to eat. But i would seriously reconsider keeping him alone in such a large 20 gallon for his size. Even for an adult a 20 is pretty large and most keepers will keep a large pacman in just a 5 gallon, or perhaps at max a 10 gallon.

  7. #6
    IvoryReptiles
    Guest

    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    IvanM has given some great advice already.
    Lights are not needed, they are mostly for show. But please remember these are NOCTURNAL frogs......they hide all day and feed at night. They will need calcium & vitamin supplements provided by you......do them separately and not at the same time. Dust calcium one feeding, vitamins the next & skip 2 days. Too much of a good thing is bad.
    Do not feed superworms as a staple! They can & will cause impaction. Remove the moss. Humidity should be 80% or higher.
    Temps should be no lower than 76 & no higher than 82.
    When you feed the earthworm with tongs......tease him with it....wiggle it and tickle his lips with it. Yeah, it's silly looking and all, but if you're not willing to make the effort, then why bother having the animal?

    I hope all our advice helps! Good Luck & keep us posted.

  8. #7
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    The advice given by Ivan and Jess is spot on. Follow it to a T and keep us posted.


  9. #8
    infamouschris7
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    So I moved him to an even smaller tank where I originally kept my crickets and took out the moss. I did what you said by wiggling the worm in his face and he kept the worm in his mouth for a while until he either spit it out or the worm crawled out. I will try again either tonight or tomorrow.

  10. #9
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by infamouschris7 View Post
    So I moved him to an even smaller tank where I originally kept my crickets and took out the moss. I did what you said by wiggling the worm in his face and he kept the worm in his mouth for a while until he either spit it out or the worm crawled out. I will try again either tonight or tomorrow.
    If he is lethargic you can give him a de-chlorinated water bath with 2 to 3 drops of honey dissolved in it. the water level should be no deeper than up to your frogs chin. This will give a small energy boost and also reacts as a natural laxative in see he needs to poop.

    Also a bath to consider is a UNFLAVORED PEDIALYTE BATH. Mix a solution at a 10 to 1 ratio. So for every 10 ounces of de-chlorinated water add 1 ounce of Flavored Pedialyte. Again water should be no deeper than chin level.

    Note that for both baths the water should be Luke warm or just barely warm to the touch. Soaking duration for the honey bath is 10 to 15 minutes. Soaking duration for the Flavored Pedialyte bath is 20 minutes.


  11. #10
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by GrifTheGreat View Post
    If he is lethargic you can give him a de-chlorinated water bath with 2 to 3 drops of honey dissolved in it. the water level should be no deeper than up to your frogs chin. This will give a small energy boost and also reacts as a natural laxative in see he needs to poop.

    Also a bath to consider is a UNFLAVORED PEDIALYTE BATH. Mix a solution at a 10 to 1 ratio. So for every 10 ounces of de-chlorinated water add 1 ounce of Flavored Pedialyte. Again water should be no deeper than chin level.

    Note that for both baths the water should be Luke warm or just barely warm to the touch. Soaking duration for the honey bath is 10 to 15 minutes. Soaking duration for the Flavored Pedialyte bath is 20 minutes.
    Make sure the Pedialyte is Unflavored.


  12. #11
    Taryn Cierra
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    1. Size of enclosure: 5.5 gallons, but will be moved to a 10 gallon tank.
    2. # of inhabitants - Only one, Clyde.
    3. Humidity: Alway between 50-80 percent, but hovers around 65-70 percent most of the time.
    4. Temperature: Day-80 degrees, night-70-75 degrees.
    5. Water: Tap water treated with ReptiSafe. It is also put in a water pitcher so it can sit out. I refill the water pitcher when I use all the water in it. It is used for both water dish & misting.
    6. Materials used for substrate: Eco Earth Coconut Fiber.
    7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial): Right now he only has his fake, viney plant and a water dish. He did have half a hollow log, but I felt it took up to much space. Looking to add more artificial plants instead & maybe re-adding the log once he has a bigger tank. Everything was washed in hot water before being added.
    8. Main food source: Gut-loaded large crickets.
    9. Vitamins and calcium? Crickets are dusted once a week.
    10. Lighting: While I am away, my bedroom light and when I am home I use his heat lamp on a low setting since it is already warm in my room.
    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure: Heat lamp if temperature drops below 75 degrees during the day. Otherwise its already warm enough in my room and keeps the tank temperature at 80 degrees.
    12. When is the last time he/she ate: Since all his crickets decided to hide in his plants, he didnt eat until an hour ago (1:00 pm) when I shook his crickets free from his plant.
    13. Have you found poop lately: Yes, a couple days ago.
    14. Clyde:
    Attachment 38746Attachment 38747
    Clydes underside:
    Attachment 38749Attachment 38748
    His tank: The last picture is what it looks like when his log was in his tank.
    Attachment 38750Attachment 38751Attachment 38752
    15. How old is the frog: Not quite sure, he was the size of a silver dollar when I got him on my birthday, June 25th, 2012.
    16. How long have you owned him/her: About three months.
    17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred: Captive bred I would believe since he was bought at PetSmart.
    18. Frog food: I have not introduced anything other than crickets yet, not sure what else would be good to feed him. Also how big should they be before treating them to a pinky mouse here and there?
    19. How often the frog is handled: Only when cage changes are due.
    20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area: I would believe low traffic until I get ready for bed usually.
    21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc): Water is changed every day when I get home from work, or in the morning if I have the day off. I check for waste, dead uneaten crickets daily and remove them, his water dish is cleaned with hot water during every water change, and he gets a complete cage change once a month but now I have decided to start changing it completely every two weeks instead. Plants and other objects are cleaned during the complete cage change, or if they looked pretty soiled and dirty.

    Now, what I am worried about is that he may have Red Leg since he is pinkish underneath. No matter what I am going to schedule a vet appointment but would also like your input.

  13. #12
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    During the day his temp should never drop below 80° and night temp should never go below 75°, but it is better to keep them around 77° or 78°


  14. #13
    Taryn Cierra
    Guest

    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    Thats good to know because the pamplet my mom got with him said for it to be as low as 65 degrees to 75 degrees at night. Thanks for letting me know!

  15. #14
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    Unfortunately, there is a lot of incorrect and inconsistent information out there. This site has a lot of good info though.


  16. #15
    xJennie
    Guest

    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    1. 10 gallon tank
    2. a few crickets with my frog
    3. around 60%
    4. 75F-84F (stays a little past 80F during the day)
    5. Distilled for misting.. I don't know which kind to use for soaking dish since I was informed distilled drains vitamins from the frog if used in the dish.
    6. 3 inches of ground coconut fiber
    7. He has a 2 rocks laying around in the aquarium, with his cave. They are all cleaned before I put them in his aquarium.
    8. Crickets
    9. Pretty much every time he eats a cricket. I feed the crickets Fluker's orange cubes and dust crickets with calcium.
    10. Heat lamp, or just a regular light behind his tank, depending on the temperature in the tank. I don't want to overheat him.
    11. The heat lamp.
    12. About a week and half ago.
    13. No ): he's been sleeping under the soil for quite some time now.
    14.
    15. I have no clue. He's about 2 inches wide.
    16. About 7 months
    17. Captive.
    18. Crickets, he eats them whenever he desires to. I usually leave a few crickets in the tank for him.
    19. Hardly ever, only during tank changes.
    20. Low traffic.
    21. Every month (unless he's under his soil) to replace his substrate, clean the rocks, etc. Water changes.. Used to be everyday. Before he dug himself under the soil.

  17. #16
    MrFroggie
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    As requested:
    1. 5gallon tank since its small
    2.One inhibitat
    3. Moist substrate and tropical country
    4. 29-31degree Celsius
    5. Misting everyday except when it is too wet
    6. Natural ground coco fiber from nursery
    7. One anubias and 2 fake plastic moss
    8. Crickets
    9. Haven't start yet, just got him 3days ago
    10. 40bright LED
    11. Room temp
    12. 3days ago (just got him) he ate 2big cricket
    13. Never
    14.
    15. Not sure butits1.5inch
    16. 3days
    17. captive bred
    18. Haven't have any
    19. Always to soak it into its dish and hoping it to poop
    20. Haven't perform

    I want to find out why does it didn't poop for 3days and is it normal? It also stopped eating. Maybe I gave it too much 3days ago and the cricket are huge!

  18. #17
    100+ Post Member DeeDub's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    Hey man, just let your frog be for a couple days. Three days without pooping is normal. Don't stress him out. He is already stressed. Just leave him be for a couple days and offer him a small piece of nightcrawler in his water dish (he should be in the dish before you drop it in).
    Last edited by DeeDub; December 15th, 2012 at 10:52 PM. Reason: I was rude and he's just a kid. I revised
    ........................................
    Thanks
    DW

  19. This member thanks DeeDub for this post:


  20. #18
    MrFroggie
    Guest

    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    Quote Originally Posted by DeeDub View Post
    Hey man, just let your frog be for a couple days. Three days without pooping is normal. Don't stress him out. He is already stressed. Just leave him be for a couple days and offer him a small piece of nightcrawler in his water dish (he should be in the dish before you drop it in).
    Yesterday night it ate a dusted small cricket

  21. #19
    kaitlynj0
    Guest

    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    I recently found my pacman hidden on the warm dry side of his enclosure and was getting ready to feed him. I noticed he looked hard and dry and decided to see if he was alive or not. I touched him to move him and he let out a long slow breath and it seemed that he had died. I was highly upset to my boyfriend decided to "take care" of him for me. When he went to pick up my pacman the frog suddenly started twitching and breathing again, then he stopped, and started again. He was very dirty so I used his dechlorinated pond water to clean him off a bit. I took him out of the cage so we could try to feed him and clean his cage. He hasn't eaten in about a month, which I understand is common among pacmans. But I noticed he did look "deformed" so I looked up the problem and concluded that he may have MBD. I am not a vet so I do not know. Now he seems to be back to normal, and he seems to be less "deformed" looking but his body still looks odd. I am attempting to feed him again right now, but he is having trouble hopping. He is interested in the food and I can tell he is hungry because he can get a little nippy when being moved from enclosure to feeding cage. He has tried to go after the cricket but he seems to be having trouble with his back legs and hopping. I do not trust my local pet store because they gave me a lot of WRONG information when I purchased him. I also cannot find a vet that is well learned with amphibians/reptiles. Help!

    1. Size of enclosure- 10 gallon tanks

    2. # of inhabitants - just my pacman
    3. Humidity stays between 70-90%
    4. Temperature- stays between 74-82 degrees
    5. Water - type - dechlorinated room temp water for both misting and pond
    6. Materials used for substrate- cocofiber
    7. Enclosure set up i.e. plants (live or artificial), wood, bark and other materials- small rock pond with artificial plants surrounding it.
    - How were things prepared prior to being put into the viv.- disinfected and rinsed out. filled with cocofiber and moistened. heating pad on left side of cage.
    8. Main food source crickets
    9. Vitamins and calcium? (how often) crickets fed with calcium supplemented flukers and dusted with calcium
    10. Lighting no lighting, i heard it was not good for pacmans. did a lot of research on it, opinions seem to vary on this subject.
    11. What is being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure- heating pad for 10 gallon tanks on the right side of the cage above the cocofiber so that the frog could not burn/harm himself if near it
    12. When is the last time he/she ate- about 1 month ago
    13. Have you found poop lately- no. usually poops about every 2 weeks but has not in over a month.
    14. A pic would be helpful including frog and enclosure (any including cell phone pic is fine) sorry
    15. How old is the frog- i bought him about 9 to 10 months. i bought him in may 2012 and he was about the size of a quarter.
    16. How long have you owned him/her- 9/10 months
    17. Is the frog wild caught or captive bred- captive bred
    18. Frog food- how often and if it is diverse, what other feeders are used as treats- crickets only. i researched and heard he should not eat pinkys because of how fatty they are, and they a goldfish/other should not be given until he is as big as they are. he is getting close but i am not sure. i stay away from worms.
    19. How often the frog is handled- 3 times a week for feeding.
    20. Is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area- medium.
    21. Describe enclosure maintenance (water changes, cleaning, etc)- water changed with every feeding, substrate changed every 2 weeks.




    here are some photos
    Name:  1358446932959.jpg
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  22. #20
    Moderator GrifTheGreat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Trouble in the Enclosure

    Well Kaitlyn I can honestly say that he is in trouble. He is malnourished and was trying to aestivate. He appears to be severly stunted as well. He should be much larger than he appears.

    I'll start with the problems.



    First there should never be a dry side in the tank. A warm and cool side providing a climate gradient is fine, but the coconut fiber should never be dry anywhere. It should all be moist or heavily damp. Also you should be using dechlorinated tap water or natural spring water. The pond water will contain oarasites and bacteria that will make your frog sick. Change that immediately!

    Second he should be fed much more than 3 times a week and if this is howbyou have been feeding him since you got him then this explains the start or MBD and his malnourishment. Babies and juviniles should be fed daily to every other day and once they reach adulthood it is fine to feedp them every couple days. He also needs a calcium supplement that contains Vitamin D3 to allow him to metabolize the calcium to bone. He also needs a reptile/amphibian multivitamin. Calcium dusting should be every other feeding and the multivitamin dusting only once a week.

    My advice is to go out and buy some Unflavored Pedialyte, Fluker's Repta-Boost, honey, and he supplements I mentioned above.

    Until he is strong enough to eat on his own I would force feed him the Rept-Boost according to the dosage directions in the box.

    Also prepare a medicated soak of Unflavored Pedialyte, luke warm dechlorinated water, and honey. The bath should be no deeper than up to the frog's chest. Prepare it as follows;

    Prepare a luke warm bath(78°F to 80°F) at a 10 to 1 ratio. So for every 10 ounces luke warm dechlorinated water add 1 ounce unflavored Pedialyte. Add 3 drops of honey to the bath and dissolve it in. Place the frog in the bath and soak him for 15 to 20 minutes or until the bath cools. After time is up or the bath has cooled prepare a second luke warm dechlorinated bath of just dechlorinated water to rinse him off and keep his body temp up to par. After this bath is complete then give him his dose of Repta-Boost. Do this daily and it is ok to go ahead and offer him crickets, but take the hind legs off of them so they can't jump. Tjis makes them very easy prey.

    You can mix a small amount of calcium powder and multivitamin in with the Repta Boost that you are going to give him so that he gets an extra boost, but only do this every 3rd or 4th dose so that he doesn't get vitamin toxicosis.

    His day temps should be 80°F to 82°F and night temps should hover around 78°F. Humidity should be 70% to 80%.

    If you can post some good pictures of his enclosure and more of him so I can look him over.

    Also just so you know Earthworms are pretty much the best feeder for frogs. They are highly nutritious and easy to digest.

    Keep me posted.


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