Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 41

Thread: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

  1. #1
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,337
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Hi All,
    Dr. Frye sent me an email that I wanted to share with you all as to medications one should have on hand in case your frog is needing medical attention and a vet is no where to be found.
    Dr Frye is very nice and willing to assist but it is highly recommended that photos be attached to the email if your looking for assistance.
    Dr Frye can be contacted at dr.frye.vetatmilan@gmail.com

    The meds listed below can be bought from Dr Frye if you live in the U.S. Note that prices may have changed since this was sent to me. If you live outside the U.S. you can track down a local vet and purchase the items.

    Here is the email I received:
    As a first aid kit, I strongly recommend having a few drugs on hand at all times. That way when a medical problem arises, you just need to contact me, and I can steer you down the right path.

    Metronidizole is an antibacterial, antiprotozoal, and APPETITE STIMULANT. It is $30 per 100 mLs.

    Silversulfadiazene is a topical antibiotic and antifungal that promotes healing while discouraging scarring. It should be used on ALL skin lesions and costs $34 per ounce.

    Baytril is a strong systemic antibiotic that needs to be mixed carefully. It costs $24 per ounce and is mixed according to the size of the frog treated. Only a few drops are used daily.

    Panacur is a powdered dewormer. It is very safe and easy to use and costs $14 per spoonful.

    Shipping costs $11 for Priority on any order that includes one of the liquid medications. If you purchase Panacur alone, shipping costs $2. I can not ship medications outside of the United States.

    You can pay by PayPal at dr.frye.vetatmilan@gmail.com , or by calling my office at 734-439-2273 and paying via credit card over the phone.
    My hospital is not open on Wednesdays, so please take that into account.

    End of email
    Last edited by DonLisk; April 26th, 2012 at 05:26 PM.
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf/ Frog - Agalychnis callidryas
    1.1.1 Bumblebee Dart Frog - Dendrobates leucomelas
    1.1.0 Dendrobates truncatus - Yellow Striped
    1.1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius – Bakhuis Mountain
    1.1.0 - Dendrobates tinctorius - Powder Blue
    1.1.0 - Ranitomeya vanzolinii

  2. 4 members thank DonLisk for this post:


  3. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many
     

  4. #2
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Huntington .. New York
    Posts
    4,975
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    This is super !
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  5. #3
    Moderator DonLisk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    New Hampshire
    Posts
    2,337
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    I would like to add that one item to also keep on hand is Neosporin WITH pain reliever. I only say this since you may have to (we hope not) euthanize one of your friends, but making it wait and in pain makes it just take much harder on both you and the frog if you have to go buy it when its needed.
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf/ Frog - Agalychnis callidryas
    1.1.1 Bumblebee Dart Frog - Dendrobates leucomelas
    1.1.0 Dendrobates truncatus - Yellow Striped
    1.1.1 Dendrobates tinctorius – Bakhuis Mountain
    1.1.0 - Dendrobates tinctorius - Powder Blue
    1.1.0 - Ranitomeya vanzolinii

  6. This member thanks DonLisk for this post:


  7. #4
    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Erie, Pa
    Posts
    8,236
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default

    Thanks Don! Great post!
    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203589094112277&id=1363241107&set =a.1434844115446.2055312.1363241107&source=11&ref= bookmark

  8. #5
    Owler
    Guest

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    This is brilliant, however, is there no way of shipping to the UK?

  9. #6
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Huntington .. New York
    Posts
    4,975
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Quote Originally Posted by Owler View Post
    This is brilliant, however, is there no way of shipping to the UK?
    Myles,
    At least you have the list of medications he recommends keeping on hand !
    I'm sure you could purchase equivalents approved for the same use in the UK.
    You could email him? Perhaps he would still answer any questions you might have regarding the need to use one of these drugs?
    Don't know.
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  10. #7
    Owler
    Guest

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Yup, this is a plus

    Already spoken to a few vets, they can't sell me anything without seeing what is wrong with the animal first - such a pain.

    Sorry, I got a bit excited when I saw this, those prices are really good!

    To give you an idea of my pain, I forked out £25 for seeing the vet then £95 for 60ml of Tamodine for my iguana - wish I lived in the states and not on a small rock in the middle of the Irish sea sometimes

  11. #8
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Huntington .. New York
    Posts
    4,975
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Myles,
    Why don't you try emailing him?
    I have done business with him recently. He seems very busy .
    However, very caring as well.
    If he had the time he might be able to get back to you???? (please understand-I would never take the liberty to say he would do this)
    Just a thought?
    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  12. #9
    Veterinarian
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Nationality
    [United Kingdom]
    Age
    53
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Quote Originally Posted by Owler View Post
    Yup, this is a plus

    Already spoken to a few vets, they can't sell me anything without seeing what is wrong with the animal first - such a pain.

    Sorry, I got a bit excited when I saw this, those prices are really good!

    To give you an idea of my pain, I forked out £25 for seeing the vet then £95 for 60ml of Tamodine for my iguana - wish I lived in the states and not on a small rock in the middle of the Irish sea sometimes
    Hello,

    I should point out that there is a very good reason for seeing the animal - it is incredibly irresponsible, in my view, to dispense a medication (all medications being drugs, with potential side effects, interactions with other drugs, appropriate/inappropriate use issues) without being as reasonably sure as you can be that the correct drug, in the correct dosage, is being used for an appropriate condition. You can't really do that without seeing the animal, assessing its husbandry and examining it. Hence the legal requirement in the UK to see the animal. Obviously if the vet knows you and is happy that you know what you're doing, won't make a mistake with medication dosing etc he/she may be happy to dispense more freely. But with a complete stranger who just asserts "I know what I'm doing"? How responsible do you think it would be of the vet to give out medicines in that case? NO drugs lack side effects, although obviously their relative safety will vary.

    As a vet, I am responsible for the effects of a drug I advise or dispense (unless administered contrary to my instructions/advice) - if I just said give your frog x mls of panacur, for example, and someone used a completely different preparation/concentration of panacur than the one I'm thinking of and kills the animal, then that's my fault. Or if I said, "oh, yes, that could be an abscess, here's some antibiotic" to someone just describing a lump on their frog, again that would be completely irresponsible if it died of a tumour (or indeed abscess) that could have been easily removed surgically.

    In the example from another recent post, a white lump on the back of a frog, a bacterial abscess is the likeliest cause. But it could be a other things (fungal abscess, mycobacterial abscess, parasitic cyst, neoplasia, cyst, hernia or others), in which cases antibiotics are not beneficial (and could be harmful by disrupting the animal's natural skin, gut or other bacterial flora - natural skin bacteria are an important part of the animal's defences, including against chytrid). Similarly without testing you could miss the fact that the animal has mycobacteriosis (similar organisms to "fish tuberculosis") which can affect humans - again, something the vet has a responsibility to discuss with you.

    It is worth noting that many of these could only be determined by further testing - which costs money I'm afraid. Professional services and advice costs money - if you can't or are unwilling to afford that, don't keep pets - if you do, that's irresponsible in my book. It is that simple.

    Too many people moan over £25 vet consult, yet would (ok maybe not happily : ) pay far more for a plumber, builder etc. Obviously tests can be discussed as to their costs and benefits with the vet - but if you refuse the tests, you may prevent the vet getting the correct diagnosis and treatment (in the example, say fungal rather than bacterial abscess), which may kill your amphibian.

    Sorry, but these people that think they 5 or 6 years in vet school is irrelevant and they can just throw drugs at an ill animal with no sort of diagnosis causes so much animal suffering. I'm certainly not discounting practical experience of keepers, and it is often a cooperative effort between keeper and vet to determine the best course of action (stress of medication issues may often make the medically ideal course of treatment inadvisable, for example). But selecting the appropriate medication in the appropriate preparation, dosing the appropriate amount and frequency, by an appropriate route of administration relies on a large body of background knowledge of anatomy, physiology, pharmacology and pathology as well as clinical examination, possible laboratory tests and other diagnostics. It's not just throw a drug at the animal. As a UK vet, I see the reasoning behind the requirement for seeing the animl, and it seems to make very good sense to me!

    Not saying that all vets are wonderful, or that they will necessarily be able to help all animals. But they have the appropriate training (in general terms - obviously not all vets have further knowledge about amphibians by any means!). And I accept that some people do not have practical access to suitably trained/interested vets (although I don't accept it for most of the UK), in which case some compromise may be necessary. But are "I can't afford £10 consult fee", or "I can't be bothered to travel 10 minutes" (both of which I've heard, the second even with no consult fee for amphibians) acceptable excuses? If the alternative is no care for the animal, then the vet has to make an individual decision as to the animal's best interests - but owner unwillingness to spend a little money or put in a little effort should not be a factor in determining whether the animal is healthy and happy and gets appropriate care.

    Of course I'm not saying all amphibians that stop eating for a day or go slightly off colour, such as many examples on this site, need to go to a vet. Discussion of and modifying the environment is often an entirely appropriate first step if there is a mild problem with the animal.

    In terms of drugs, if you're in the UK, you should be aware that it is technically illegal to import prescription only veterinary drugs without a prescription, and illegal for a supplier to supply them to you without a prescription.

    Sorry, off soapbox now. But please bear in mind that if a vet takes on treatment of an animal, he/she takes on responsibility for the health of that animal, and must act appropriately and responsibly. If you haven't assessed the husbandry of the animal, observed it and physically examined it, then I would suggest you are not really in a position to responsibly advise on its diagnosis and treatment.

    Hope this helps,

    Bruce.

  13. This member thanks Herpvet for this post:


  14. #10
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Huntington .. New York
    Posts
    4,975
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Quote Originally Posted by Herpvet View Post
    Hello,

    I should point out that there is a very good reason for seeing the animal - it is incredibly irresponsible, in my view, to dispense a medication (all medications being drugs, with potential side effects, interactions with other drugs, appropriate/inappropriate use issues) without being as reasonably sure as you can be that the correct drug, in the correct dosage, is being used for an appropriate condition. You can't really do that without seeing the animal, assessing its husbandry and examining it. Hence the legal requirement in the UK to see the animal. Obviously if the vet knows you and is happy that you know what you're doing, won't make a mistake with medication dosing etc he/she may be happy to dispense more freely. But with a complete stranger who just asserts "I know what I'm doing"? How responsible do you think it would be of the vet to give out medicines in that case? NO drugs lack side effects, although obviously their relative safety will vary.

    As a vet, I am responsible for the effects of a drug I advise or dispense (unless administered contrary to my instructions/advice) - if I just said give your frog x mls of panacur, for example, and someone used a completely different preparation/concentration of panacur than the one I'm thinking of and kills the animal, then that's my fault. Or if I said, "oh, yes, that could be an abscess, here's some antibiotic" to someone just describing a lump on their frog, again that would be completely irresponsible if it died of a tumour (or indeed abscess) that could have been easily removed surgically.

    In the example from another recent post, a white lump on the back of a frog, a bacterial abscess is the likeliest cause. But it could be a other things (fungal abscess, mycobacterial abscess, parasitic cyst, neoplasia, cyst, hernia or others), in which cases antibiotics are not beneficial (and could be harmful by disrupting the animal's natural skin, gut or other bacterial flora - natural skin bacteria are an important part of the animal's defences, including against chytrid). Similarly without testing you could miss the fact that the animal has mycobacteriosis (similar organisms to "fish tuberculosis") which can affect humans - again, something the vet has a responsibility to discuss with you.

    It is worth noting that many of these could only be determined by further testing - which costs money I'm afraid. Professional services and advice costs money - if you can't or are unwilling to afford that, don't keep pets - if you do, that's irresponsible in my book. It is that simple.

    Too many people moan over £25 vet consult, yet would (ok maybe not happily : ) pay far more for a plumber, builder etc. Obviously tests can be discussed as to their costs and benefits with the vet - but if you refuse the tests, you may prevent the vet getting the correct diagnosis and treatment (in the example, say fungal rather than bacterial abscess), which may kill your amphibian.

    Sorry, but these people that think they 5 or 6 years in vet school is irrelevant and they can just throw drugs at an ill animal with no sort of diagnosis causes so much animal suffering. I'm certainly not discounting practical experience of keepers, and it is often a cooperative effort between keeper and vet to determine the best course of action (stress of medication issues may often make the medically ideal course of treatment inadvisable, for example). But selecting the appropriate medication in the appropriate preparation, dosing the appropriate amount and frequency, by an appropriate route of administration relies on a large body of background knowledge of anatomy, physiology, pharmacology and pathology as well as clinical examination, possible laboratory tests and other diagnostics. It's not just throw a drug at the animal. As a UK vet, I see the reasoning behind the requirement for seeing the animl, and it seems to make very good sense to me!

    Not saying that all vets are wonderful, or that they will necessarily be able to help all animals. But they have the appropriate training (in general terms - obviously not all vets have further knowledge about amphibians by any means!). And I accept that some people do not have practical access to suitably trained/interested vets (although I don't accept it for most of the UK), in which case some compromise may be necessary. But are "I can't afford £10 consult fee", or "I can't be bothered to travel 10 minutes" (both of which I've heard, the second even with no consult fee for amphibians) acceptable excuses? If the alternative is no care for the animal, then the vet has to make an individual decision as to the animal's best interests - but owner unwillingness to spend a little money or put in a little effort should not be a factor in determining whether the animal is healthy and happy and gets appropriate care.

    Of course I'm not saying all amphibians that stop eating for a day or go slightly off colour, such as many examples on this site, need to go to a vet. Discussion of and modifying the environment is often an entirely appropriate first step if there is a mild problem with the animal.

    In terms of drugs, if you're in the UK, you should be aware that it is technically illegal to import prescription only veterinary drugs without a prescription, and illegal for a supplier to supply them to you without a prescription.

    Sorry, off soapbox now. But please bear in mind that if a vet takes on treatment of an animal, he/she takes on responsibility for the health of that animal, and must act appropriately and responsibly. If you haven't assessed the husbandry of the animal, observed it and physically examined it, then I would suggest you are not really in a position to responsibly advise on its diagnosis and treatment.

    Hope this helps,

    Bruce.
    Hi Bruce,

    It's not a soap-box! This is well worth a good discussion!

    There are a few sides to all situations! Here's mine. Many of us would travel to the end of the earth to see a vet that could treat our frogs. However, qualified herp vets, ( specifically for frogs) are not so handy!

    You sound like a caring and kind vet! I understand your point-of-view. I can only wish that your practice was near by.I am an RN, although very different; I understand how important 'clinical recommendations and standards of care are'. As well as,seeing and testing what you are treating.

    I recently had a very sick tree frog. He did not eat for 7 weeks , he was so sick.
    I took him to a local "herp vet". Forget about the cost, it did not matter to me!

    I questioned the staff when making my appt and was told the vet that would be examining my frog , "was experienced w/ tree frogs".Well , I when got there it turned out the vet had very, very limited experience in treating my precious little 7gm creature. I left with a rx that would have been 3X the proper dose of Baytril ! It was prescribed even before waiting for a fecal result !!! This may be an unusual experience, but never-the-less, true. I had a bad feeling about the whole thing . I researched the dose of the drug. If it were not for my 'clinical' background and my doing so, my frog would have surly died .

    If it were not for Dr Frye.......my frog would be DEAD !
    His kind and considerate care was based on a tremendous amount of information via email including several photos and a detailed medical/daily care history.

    More importantly, some people have no where to go, especially in rural areas of the US !!!! Then what does one do? Sometimes, they are really --in a pickle.

    In defense of your point of view; if I would have found a vet first and then purchased the frog................... I would have been in deep dooo-daaa!

    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  15. #11
    Veterinarian
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Nationality
    [United Kingdom]
    Age
    53
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Quote Originally Posted by flybyferns View Post
    Hi Bruce,

    It's not a soap-box! This is well worth a good discussion!

    There are a few sides to all situations! Here's mine. Many of us would travel to the end of the earth to see a vet that could treat our frogs. However, qualified herp vets, ( specifically for frogs) are not so handy!

    You sound like a caring and kind vet! I understand your point-of-view. I can only wish that your practice was near by.I am an RN, although very different; I understand how important 'clinical recommendations and standards of care are'. As well as,seeing and testing what you are treating.

    I recently had a very sick tree frog. He did not eat for 7 weeks , he was so sick.
    I took him to a local "herp vet". Forget about the cost, it did not matter to me!

    I questioned the staff when making my appt and was told the vet that would be examining my frog , "was experienced w/ tree frogs".Well , I when got there it turned out the vet had very, very limited experience in treating my precious little 7gm creature. I left with a rx that would have been 3X the proper dose of Baytril ! It was prescribed even before waiting for a fecal result !!! This may be an unusual experience, but never-the-less, true. I had a bad feeling about the whole thing . I researched the dose of the drug. If it were not for my 'clinical' background and my doing so, my frog would have surly died .

    If it were not for Dr Frye.......my frog would be DEAD !
    His kind and considerate care was based on a tremendous amount of information via email including several photos and a detailed medical/daily care history.

    More importantly, some people have no where to go, especially in rural areas of the US !!!! Then what does one do? Sometimes, they are really --in a pickle.

    In defense of your point of view; if I would have found a vet first and then purchased the frog................... I would have been in deep dooo-daaa!

    Hello Lynn,

    Thanks very much for your reply. I do appreciate there are two sides to this, but that casual "oh, it's a pain to let the vet actually see the animal" (with the implication that the owner knows more than any vet) is what I dislike. I'm perfectly willing to admit that, particularly with some rare species, the owner may know more about the species as such, and as I said it is a joint effort to help the amphib. But I doubt many owners have the necessary detailed knowledge as mentioned (anatomy, physiology, pathology, pharmacology) to provide a fully informed diagnostic and therapeutic plan.

    Of course I don't condone what that vet did as described, and I do accept what you say about people without practical access to a suitable vet (although the impression I get, from several herp forums, is that quite a few people say this without trying to find, or at least making only fairly minimal effort to find, a vet). Under those circumstances, I don't doubt that veterinary advice can be invaluable, and of course doing it properly like Dr Frye does is the best option. But it is a very far from ideal option.

    I've also seen too many places online recommending, say, panacur at a specific amount (not even dose), apparently ignorant of the fact that there are different preparations (or not allowing for the fact that the reader may be ignorant of it). 1 ml of 25% panacur suspension is (obviously as you know) NOT the same as 1 ml of 100% suspension, and that misunderstanding could kill a pet. Even different preparations of the same concentrations (say, oral baytril versus injectable) can have fatal consequences.

    Of course, in a lot of cases, empirical treatment may be the only option (due either to practical considerations (I accept that blood sampling your 7 g frog is not a viable option!), or, more commonly in my experience, the owner is unwilling to pay for tests). But the owner should be aware of the options, and the potential risks of not testing. We're always taught to offer the best option for the animal - it is ultimately the owner's decision, but the vet's job is to do the best possible for the animal.

    Best wishes,

    Bruce.

  16. #12
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Huntington .. New York
    Posts
    4,975
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Bruce,
    Like I said, I wish I had someone like yourself to take my frogs to.

    Yes, owners ( with few exceptions) are not prepared to make any medical decisions for any pet.
    Yes, it's true---- sadly, many people, unfortunately, do not take care of their pets!
    Many mean well, their hearts may be in it, but then the buck stops there.
    I have a great vet for my Russian Tortoise ( who never needs a thing , of course, as they are sturdy little guys) but not my for frogs!
    I'll keep searching!
    Sincerely, Lynn
    Last edited by flybyferns; February 12th, 2013 at 09:47 AM.
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  17. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    fayetville pa
    Posts
    48
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    I have to say someone got this kid.. I use neosporin for all of my frogs cuts or sores( nose rub, scratches,scraps) it works out perfect. I dont get the stuff that causes numb just normal neosporin. I dont see why you would pay 34$ for it.. "Silversulfadiazene is a topical antibiotic and antifungal that promotes healing while discouraging scarring. It should be used on ALL skin lesions and costs $34 per ounce."


  18. #14
    Super Moderator Heatheranne's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Erie, Pa
    Posts
    8,236
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default

    If it's ok, I'd like to speak a bit also...

    I agree good vet advice and treatment with an exam is best. Exotic vets can be hard to find.

    I too had trouble when I brought home a beat-up retf with scratches that were infected and some areas abscessed, from a local pet store. They had him housed with crested geckos . Anyway, I took him to my local vet for care and I walked away with a $182 vet bill and advice to rinse him in 0.9% NSS and then rinse again with dechlor water daily. As I knew it wouldn't, it did not help. His skin started to wrinkle up and look worse. I figured she knew more than I knew, considering. I started boiling dechlor water and let it cool and wiped down his whole hospital tank every night, changed his paper towels every night, misted with the boiled/cooled dechlor water and applied neosporin thinly to his wounds every night. I didn't know what else to do since she is apparently the only vet who cares for herps in town. I was lucky. He toughened up and pulled through. It would have been nice to have more assistance. And that was a hefty bill to have made my frog worse.

    I brought home some ill, thin, dehydrated retf's in the past few months to hopefully recover them. This time I called Dr. Frye, spoke with him, sent email photos, and we spoke about symptoms, etc. I weighed them and he sent me the appropriate medications and dosings for them. They since then are eating on their own, rehydrated, and their skin lesions are healed. Since then I have opted to take in and recover the other 3, and they too have done well.

    So, I feel in some circumstances, this may be the best provision available to some.

    Sadly enough, the 3 I now have recovered with guidance and Rx's were taken to that same vet I saw for my first saved baby. She kept them for 2 days at the pet hospital there, did not even soak them when they were clearly dehydrated, did not even force feed them when their sides were so thin they were sunken in, and did not medicate their light green spots and patches nor the slimy brown patches. She returned them to the store and told them they were hard to feed so she couldn't and that she wasn't sure that the spots weren't their normal markings. I was shocked. When I spoke with the girls at the store they offered them to me as an adoption in attempts to save them. They are now completely fine . Pretty scary though, considering she is suppose to be the local zoo vet.

    Obviously, this is not the average case, but I do believe in some areas herp and reptile vets are scarce. This alternative may be their only option.

    I do sometimes wonder if it's easier for us to treat them as having medical background as nurses. Its hard to say. There are several very educated frog owners here on the forum, I feel. Proper dosing and understanding of the medications prescribed is very helpful. Knowing what flagyl was and what it was used for, SSD cream, and after looking up baytril, I had complete understanding of how we were treating what we were treating, and what likely organisms we were treating. It all made perfect sense. Not all of our members here have that background, and I think, to an extent, you should know what to expect with the medications, and when to call your vet.

    Of course, I am rambling as I do, but I can definitely see where a vet exam is important. Though sometimes availability of a good herp vet is scarce.

    I guess in this big long post I just wanted to say I agree with you both . Yet those who are less fortunate to have such a good vet as yourself are at a loss.

    Sorry I am always so long winded .
    https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203589094112277&id=1363241107&set =a.1434844115446.2055312.1363241107&source=11&ref= bookmark

  19. #15
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Huntington .. New York
    Posts
    4,975
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    I have placed a re-order for emergency medications as recommended by Dr Frye:
    Unfortunately, medications expire.

    <Metronidizole $30 per 100 mLs.
    Silversulfadiazene/ topical antibiotic and antifungal $34 per ounce.
    Baytril / strong systemic antibiotic $24 per
    Panacur / powdered dewormer. $14 per spoonful.
    Shipping costs $11
    >
    total 113.00 including shipping

    When I receive them , I will post another reply here w/ photos and additional suggestions regarding supplies to be kept on hand
    in the frog medicine cabinet. With exception of the Baytril, I have used all of the above medications ( w/ Dr Frye's instruction) which saved the life of my frog.

    Lynn
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  20. #16
    100+ Post Member kueluck's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    North Carolina
    Age
    59
    Posts
    1,712
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    How often should these be replaced?
    Rest in peace Rosie 5-31-12
    Rest in peace Rufus 2-7-14
    Rest in peace Morph 8-14-15


  21. #17
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    Huntington .. New York
    Posts
    4,975
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Quote Originally Posted by kueluck View Post
    How often should these be replaced?
    Hi Gail - my first delivery had various expiration dates. ( they all averaged about a year ..... some a little longer)
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

  22. #18
    KimW
    Guest

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    I have to say this: I have over 10 years exp as a vet tech. I agree it is MUCH better to have your animal seen by a vet if possible. I also realize with herp's it often isn't possible. I think overall the service Dr. Frye provides is often necessary, BUT, if you knew what these meds actually cost (especially in the dose needed for a frog), and what he charges for them, you would be outraged. I understand he needs to be compensated for someones time to package and ship these items. Even with this factored in, its still outrageous. When my frog was sick, I emailed him. I explained that I was a vet tech and had access to the meds and just wanted confirmation of the doses I was using. I got no reply. I know he is providing a valuable service, and it does save frogs, but he is also taking advantage of the fact that it is so hard to get care for herps and that kind of makes me mad.

  23. #19
    KimW
    Guest

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    So after I posted the above opinion, I felt bad about having done so without actual numbers to substantiate my statement. So I crunched some numbers to provide an example and let people decide themselves if its "outrageous" or "taking advantage".

    Baytril as an example: a 1oz (30ml) bottle of Baytril solution at 1mg/ml (the dose/dilution I used successfully to treat my adult WTF who was suffering from a bacterial infection (green spots)

    A 20 ml bottle of 22mg/ml Baytril runs about $42.00 so this is about 8 cents worth to make the above.
    Distilled water is less than 2 cents per ounce.
    The most expensive 30 ml plastic med dispensing bottle I could find went for 1.65 per unit. (some are as cheap as 10 cents)
    An EXPERIENCED vet tech makes anywhere from 10-15 dollars an hour. Lets go with 12 dollars and hour for this estimate: Lets pay the tech for 5 minutes to package said perscription and print a label for it. That would be about $1.00.
    So total cost to Dr. Frye for 1oz of Bayril solution he sends you: $2.75. I believe I saw the price as $24.00 + shipping? I apologize if I have his cost wrong as I did not verify it.

  24. #20
    100+ Post Member Bolisnide's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Age
    41
    Posts
    575
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Frog First Aid Medications - Being Prepared

    Quote Originally Posted by KimW View Post
    So after I posted the above opinion, I felt bad about having done so without actual numbers to substantiate my statement. So I crunched some numbers to provide an example and let people decide themselves if its "outrageous" or "taking advantage".

    Baytril as an example: a 1oz (30ml) bottle of Baytril solution at 1mg/ml (the dose/dilution I used successfully to treat my adult WTF who was suffering from a bacterial infection (green spots)

    A 20 ml bottle of 22mg/ml Baytril runs about $42.00 so this is about 8 cents worth to make the above.
    Distilled water is less than 2 cents per ounce.
    The most expensive 30 ml plastic med dispensing bottle I could find went for 1.65 per unit. (some are as cheap as 10 cents)
    An EXPERIENCED vet tech makes anywhere from 10-15 dollars an hour. Lets go with 12 dollars and hour for this estimate: Lets pay the tech for 5 minutes to package said perscription and print a label for it. That would be about $1.00.
    So total cost to Dr. Frye for 1oz of Bayril solution he sends you: $2.75. I believe I saw the price as $24.00 + shipping? I apologize if I have his cost wrong as I did not verify it.
    Hi Kim, you do have some very valid points. I agree, he is certainly making a large profit on the meds.
    I would like to say some things in his defense, as well as from the perspective of a 'business owner' and professional.
    When one goes with a professional, an expert, one is going to pay for that expertise. I fully trust that Dr. Frye will provide the correct medication at the correct dose. That is invaluable to me.
    He is also not charging for his consultation time in responding to an email when a question arises, nor is he charging for his time in assessing the issue at hand.
    He only charges $18 for assessing a fecal, and professionally and expertly knows exactly what to do.
    He needs to pay his staff a fair wage, and all his other overhead (rent, utilities, etc.)
    He is making his money on the meds he sells, at the right dose. That is OK by me. He certainly needs to make a living.
    As with most professionals, in whatever field, you are paying for their knowledge....
    1.1.0 White's Treefrog
    1.0.0 Red Eyed Leaf Frog

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Medications to always have on hand?
    By LilyPad in forum General Discussion & News
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: June 21st, 2011, 09:50 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •