Red Eyed Tree Frog help? Please!

[moviescolin]

I know that most of you guys must get sick of newbies signing up and asking stupid questions, but I've always been taught to ask and be sure than not to ask and be unsure.

So this past Sunday for my birthday, I picked up two RETF's at a Reptile Expo. I've wanted them for a bit, and didn't really do 100% of my research but knew their basic care. Basically, I saw them there, crapped my pants, and bought them. (A very rare site to see them at this expo.)

Immediately I bought a Zoo-Med NT-2 from the local petstore for them. It is 12in by 12in by 18in. Being a long time gecko and Firebelly owner, I set it up like I normally set up my vivariums.

I used LECA or Hydroballs, Exo-Terra Forest Moss, and Coconut Fiber to create the ground. There is a small section of water at the front of the vivarium. I have 2 planted plants, a Dracaena Deremensis and a small Bromeliad. I also have to large fake leaves that reach to the top of the enclosure, so give lots of options for hiding/sleeping.

Humidity is at 60% or higher, and temperatures are around 75-80 during the day and 70-75 at night.

So herein lies the problem. It is now Friday morning, and I haven't seen evidence of either of the two frogs eating. I've been putting 4 or 5 crickets in a small bowl in the enclosure, leaving them there overnight and taking them out the next day. Each day, no crickets are missing. Well, okay, one cricket was missing one of the days.

I'm a little worried. I heard that RETFs are usually pretty lazy, but mine have seriously been sleeping nonstop. They might wake up for a few minutes, climb to a different spot, and go back to sleep.

The only time I disturb the cage is when I mist it or when I attempt to feed them.

All the water in there is Spring Water, bottled up from the store so I know it's safe. I do have a red heat light on them at night, as the nighttime temperatures around here dip into the low 60's at night.

It is a glass enclosure, and I heard they can get stressed from viewing out all four sides, so tonight I put black poster board on the outside of the back wall and one side, kind of "boxing" them in.

I'm really not sure what to do, I think these animals are beautiful and I want to keep them for a very long time. Are they just still readjusting to a new home, or should I be concerned? Is there something with the setup that I need to change?

Almost forgot to mention - one is female and one is male.



By the way, sorry that this is my first post! I'm just worried about the little dudes. =]

[Heatheranne]

Hi and welcome!

Cover the two sides of the tank also and try and keep your humidity up around 70-80 %. If you can keep your temp up around 78, it should raise their metabolism and they should get hungry.

They are just adjusting.

I would remove the moss and cover the rocks with Eco earth or plantation soil, unless you plan to always bowl feed.

Keep things really quiet where they are.

They are pretty! I have 3 myself .

Keep us posted and good luck!

[killerecho]

First of all, welcome to the forum. "Newbie questions" are part of the reason we're here, so please don't hesitate to ask for help on anything.

Your setup and conditions seem good enough at the moment. New frogs can take a while to get acclimated to their new digs, during which they do nothing but sleep. This has been my personal experience with red eyes as well, though 5 days is at the longer end of the stick. The frog in your pic appears healthy enough, and red eyes can go a few days without food. Just be on the watch for signs of emaciation, bright green spots, skin dryness, sores, etc. Another cause for concern is if a tree frog spends an extended period on the vivarium floor. While it's nowhere near time to panic, I would scope out some veterinarians with experience treating amphibians in your area as a precautionary measure - it's a good idea regardless of how well they're doing at the moment.

Do you know if they're captive bred or wild caught? The latter may take longer to adjust depending on husbandry conditions prior to sale.

What are the size of the crickets you keep in the bowl? They should be smaller than the distance between the frogs' eyes.

Your cage (roughly 11 gallons) is adequate for the time being; however 2 adult red eyes would prefer a much larger living space. I would recommend at least 10 gallons per frog. Vertical space is better than horizontal. You can maximum their living space by filling the top half of the tank with foliage. Red eyes love to explore by walking, rather than jumping, from leaf to leaf like a junglegym. As for the plants, live is better for preserving humidity and the frogs seem to prefer the texture of the real thing. I'm not suggesting that you change anything right now - your setup is fine, fake plants and all - it's just something to consider later on, if you're upgrading enclosures.


Please keep us posted on your new additions. And if you have any more questions, please ask!

[moviescolin]

Thanks guys! As far as I know, they are captive bred. The man I bought them from had about 50 of them in a small tank and was talking to me about breeding them.

I plan to always use the cricket bowl method.

I do have another question though, is their day/night cycle disturbed by a red night heat light? I expieremented a little last night and turned it off. Sure enough, this morning there were 1-2 crickets missing and the two frogs were in completely different spots in the tank.

Brian - So I should have more leaves/branches/things to climb on near the top of the tank? And keep the floor kind of bare? Kind of disappointed, I was hoping they'd live forever in the current enclosure. Ill have to save up a couple of paychecks and get an 18x18x24.

[moviescolin]

Forgot to mention - the crickets are just your standard pinhead crickets. The bowl sits atop the water portion, should I set it on the land portion of the tank? Just trying to figure out why they're not eating any crickets!

[killerecho]

Your ground is fine, moss and all, if you plan to always bowlfeed. You may want to consider adding microfauna such as springtails and/or isopods to help manage debris and waste in the tank. And with them, some leaf litter covering the ground is also a good idea.

I would dispense with the red light. I can't confirm this, but I've heard from a few others that red light does appear to disturb the night cycle of red eyes, even if they can't detect red as well as the rest of the spectrum. If cold is a problem, you can get a heat mat and stick it on the side of the tank. If you must use a bulb, I've had good results with a 15W exoterra nightglow, which has a purplish color that doesn't seem disturb them. Stick to the lowest wattage you can find though - heat bulbs get REALLY hot and you don't want to cook your frogs.

Pinheads? Are you sure? How big are the frogs? True pinheads are 1/16ths of an inch long - way too small for anything but newly morphed froglets.

If your bowl sits on the water, is there enough space in the water for the frogs to take a dip? I would still place the bowl on land because you don't want crickets ending up in the water and fouling it up if a few happen to jump out.

[moviescolin]

Well, I do have a spare nightglow bulb. I'll pop it in tonight and see what happens. I'll also put the cricket bowl on the land portion. They still had room to hop in the water, and the crickets can't seem to get out of the bowl.

The crickets are, I would guess, an eighth to a quarter of an inch long. It's the "small" size at petsmart. They are not longer than the width of the frogs' heads, though.

[S13]

Good advice given in here Good luck! When I moved my Red-Eyed Leaf Frog from the home he was given to me in to his new 12x12x18, I literally had no contact with him for about a week and a half. I would only go in his tank to spot clean, mist, feed, change water while he was asleep (he's a pretty hard sleeper lol) and I kept the tank covered overnight. I'd say about a week he was accustomed to his new home. Now he does his routine rounds in there and eats everything I put in front of him every other night. Just takes time to get used to their new environment.

[BlueisallIneed]

My only advice is to go to a Vet and get them tested for parasites! Expos are the WORST to get animals from! They are always sick! Just get them checked out to be safe then sorry!

[moviescolin]

So basically anytime I rearrange the tank, are they going to have to go through this process?

[S13]

I would think so. From what I gather, these animals are not good with sudden environment changes. I would imagine it isn't as bad as a move from one completely different tank to another though.

[moviescolin]

Good to know. I'm notorious for tweaking my enclosures, however I'll have to just bite my lip on this one and avoid messing with the tank. I do know that I want to add a lot of large leafy plants near the top to form a canopy.


EDIT: Spot cleaned the tank and misted it just now, found what looks like feces in the water portion. At least they're pooping! I also put the cricket bowl in the far back corner on the land portion. Also switched the red light for a "black" light, or the Exo Terra Nightglo.

Hopefully they'll eat the new crickets tonight and I can stop fretting. =P

[S13]

Also another thing, make sure to dust crickets with calcium every other feeding, and with a multi-vitamin once a week.

[moviescolin]

Yup, I've dusted the crickets this time. Put them in there last night around 6pm, left them alone (didn't even enter the room) until about 1am. Both frogs were sleeping on the glass but 2-3 crickets were missing. I'm just scared that they're going to starve themselves.

What else can I do to coax them into eatng?

[moviescolin]

Actually, is the small encloure stressing them out? I have a couple of extra 20-gallon high tanks that I could set up for them if it would make them healthier.

[killerecho]

For now, just relax and monitor them. Red eyes are not usually voracious eaters, so don't expect whatever you drop in the tank to disappear. Someone told me that spraying them right before/after lights go out may encourage them to hunt for food.

You can start planning a larger tank for them once they've settled down. If temperatures allow, skip the night light altogether.

[S13]

Maybe that's why my guy eats everything I offer, I always mist right before lights out. My routine is get home at 10:30pm, mist the tanks, lights out around 11:00pm with food already offered, so when they wake up they go straight to where they know to find the food. That's interesting though, didn't know about the misting before lights out trick to induce hunting.

[killerecho]

You can thank Mike Novy for that little nugget. The man has yet to steer me wrong

Maybe that's why my guy eats everything I offer, I always mist right before lights out. My routine is get home at 10:30pm, mist the tanks, lights out around 11:00pm with food already offered, so when they wake up they go straight to where they know to find the food. That's interesting though, didn't know about the misting before lights out trick to induce hunting.

[moviescolin]

Well, a little update: Everything has panned out okay. My over-analyzing and worrying was just me freaking out!

This morning, three of the four crickets I offered them were missing. As the bowl is too high for the crix to jump out, it means somebody ate them!

I also got to see the frogs enjoying the enclosure. I added some 'palm' type plants, with thick stalks, so that they could have more things to climb on; I also added a few more branches. I saw the female out and about, finally resting on one of the branches and then proceding to hop into the water and hang out in there for a long time. The male wasn't quite as active, but he was still moving around and exploring.

Thanks everyone for the help! It looks like my frogs are happy and healthy! Now I just need to design a bigger vivarium. (There's always 'designing bigger vivariums' around my house, lol)

[moviescolin]

Nope, still worried. Am I over-worrying? Today the male frog (the smaller guy) was sleeping on the ground near the back of the tank. I added more branches. Is it possible my tank is TOO crowded?

The female frog was on the glass near the floor of the vivarium, but the male was literally on the ground.

About six hours later (after my shift) I came home, and the male was on the glass now, about 5 inches closer to the front of the tank, however still just above ground level.

My humidity is at 60-70% still, and the temps are 70-75 at night, 75-80 at day. I'm not sure what's going on? And I'm still worried about them not eating. O.o