hello

[jody]

im interested in the tiger leged monkey frog thanks to your description and photo Kurt. can you post pictures of his encosure, and tips on how to keep one happy?

[Kurt]

Tiger-legged monkey frogs usually go for around $25 on average. They are a very good place to start.

Your 20 gallons would be good for red-eyes, or better yet White's treefrog, Litoria caerulea. White's are a good pet frog, but they will need more room then you can presently accommodate. They are not as colorful as the tiger-legged monkey, red-eyed, or clown treefrogs but they have outgoing personalities and tolerate handling better than most frogs. They are readily available, and I see them all the time at Petco. They are probably the best first frog, but again they need a little bit more room than the previously mentioned treefrogs. They are also known as dumpy treefrogs, as some of them can get quite fat.

Here is a pic of one of mine. I have two of them.

[Kurt]

I don't have a digital camera so I can't take pics of the enclosure. The photos of my frogs that you see here and in my profile were taken by a professional photographer for a book.

My monkey has lived in a Rubbermaid box since day one. Its one of those 12 quart snap top boxes. Despite the fact that he has lived there for so long without problems, I would not recommend this type of enclosure for treefrogs. (A monkey frog is a type of a treefrog) Treefrogs do better with good ventilation and Rubbermaid boxes just can't provide that.

The box has holes drilled in the sides and top for ventilation, and the substrate is sphagnum moss. He has a plastic plant to hang in and a water bowl he can soak in. He is fed 1/4" crickets. I have tried feeding him Drosophila hydei (the larger fruit flies) but he was annoyed by them. He had no interest in eating any.

Monkey frogs are in the family Hylidae (the treefrogs) and in the same subfamily as the red-eyed leaf frog, Phyllomedusinae (leaf and monkey frogs). Phyllomedusinae are extremely nocturnal and in my experience red-eyes are the worst in this way. If you wake up a red-eye to feed it, he/she will just go back to sleep first chance it gets and will not eat till its dark. This is one of the reasons I don't recommend them as first frogs. I have seen calcium deficiencies in red-eyed leaf frogs. I think this is mainly because by the time they wake up to feed the crickets have managed to clean themselves of the vitamin/calcium powder. Tiger-legged monkeys are little bit better. I have seen mine eat after it has been awakened and it can be in the middle of the day and he will still eat.

[jody]

thanks mr kurt, and welcome 7870.

[jody]

the place I hunt for insects is private property. they raise koi, and never spray. and in fact since I have been hunting them in their unsprayed horse pastures they have made their farm frog and toad friendly, and are happy to see them in their organic gardens.

[Kurt]

You're welcome.

[phil7870]

i still cant figure out which one to get its very hard to decide

[Kurt]

i still cant figure out which one to get its very hard to decide

Well, with your small enclosure it comes down to two choices, the tiger-legged monkey frog and the clown treefrog. I think the monkey is just a little bit tougher than the clown treefrog, so maybe you might want to lean that way.

[tylototriton]

I've got to agree with Kurt. Dumpys are the "standard" starter treefrog, except for maybe Greens (Hyla cinerea). You could only keep Dumpys in a 20G. I'll differ to Kurt about the choice between the species, he has more experience with those specific ones. Both are decent choices though. I'm kind of a sucker for the Harlequins. Whichever you decide, be very careful about your source. There are plenty of places to find frogs, some quite a bit reputable than the rest. Either try to find a breeder or a dealer that is knowledgeable about amphibians. Also, always go for captive bred. Captive bred animals are far better for so many reasons that I won't even go into it. Also, try not to get young animals. Lots of online places offer very recently morphed animals. They are less expensive, but they require smaller food sources (fruit flies, etc) which are harder to obtain and they are more apt to die (fragile would be the more correct term). The older specimens are slightly more expensive but they can take larger crickets and are hardier than the young ones.

Alex

[Kurt]

What do you mean by harlequins? We are not talking Atelopus are we?

[tylototriton]

By Harlequins I mean Clowns. Somewhere along the way I heard them called Harlequins and now I use the two interchangeable.

Hahaha

Although, I would love some Atelopus.

[Kurt]

I would love some Atelopus.

Good luck, considering most of the Atelopus are critically endangered it will be tough and expensive to get your hands on them. The only one I have ever seen for sale havs been the
Cayenne harlequin toad, Atelopus flavescens and they were $125 a piece.

For those of you that don't know what Alex and I are talking about, I have included some pictures of some Atelopus toads. The first one is Atelopus flavescens, the only one I have ever seen for sale. The second one I am not sure of species, but sure is pretty.

[tylototriton]

There was just an importation into Europe of Atelopus spumarius of two different subspecies. Like Kurt said, they are incredibly rare in the wild, primarily because they are incredibly susceptible to Chytrid. They are beautiful animals and some species are actually bred quite readily in captivity, like Atelopus zeteki. None are available privately to U.S. keepers at this time though.

Alex

[Kurt]

It is a bummer that we can't get them. I would love some myself.

[tylototriton]

As I understand it, there may be a few actually in the U.S. hobby, but if they're here, no one is admitting to owning them. They are much like Dendrobates histrionicus and sylvaticus. At one point in time all of these species were imported into the U.S. and sold rather inexpensively. Given the large number that were imported it could be assumed that someone somewhere still has some, but I haven't met them. There are in fact many more species in the U.S. hobby than we realize, but the reality is that the general public will probably never get their hands on them. I personally know someone who had probably one of the first (and possibly only) breeding groups of Agalychnis moreletti as well as Theloderma asperum (a shipment of which apparently just came in). These private keepers don't publicize it for a variety of reasons, so in reality we will never know. That being said, I do hope that someday Atelopus populations will be stable enough to allow them into the hobby.

Alex

[tylototriton]

By the way, the second species is Atelopus spumarius of some sort. Quite a pretty specimen.

Alex

[Kurt]

I do hope that someday Atelopus populations will be stable enough to allow them into the hobby.

I hope so. I often wished someone had started captive breeding Bufo periglenes before it went missing.
I thought might be Atelopus spumarius in the picture but I wasn't sure.

[phil7870]

how big are the tigers

[Kurt]

About an inch and a half. The clowns about about the same.

[tylototriton]

Roughly average for tree frogs. That probably doesn't help you. I'd say they run about 2-3 inches in length. Thats generally true for hypochondrialis and tomopterna.

Alex